Finding Words: Language Development and Screen Use

00:00:11 – Introductions by Executive Director of Children and Screens Kris Perry

00:01:39 – Kathy Hirsh-Pasek gives an overview of early language development, emphasizing the importance of back-and-forth interaction.

00:05:20 – Rebecca Dore discusses how media impacts language development through factors such as interaction displacement and content quality, as well as the role of other home characteristics

00:16:41 – Moderator follow-up question: How do you know which apps are good vs. bad?

00:20:34 – Sarah Kucker discusses social interaction and co-viewing, and how they influence the relationship between digital media and language development.

00:35:29 – Moderator follow-up question: Being distracted by phones can send a message that children aren’t more important than the screen, but there are demands on screens for parents. What can parents do?

00:39:54 – Angie Neal provides practical tips for parents to support children’s healthy language development in a digital world.

00:57:01 – Moderator follow-up question: There are some kids who have disabilities, making conversation really difficult. What should we do in this case?

00:57:48 – Questions from the audience

00:58:05 – Q&A – What do we do for kids speaking more than one language?

01:00:14 – Q&A – Can you comment on studies putting children of deaf parents in front of television?

01:02:02 – Q&A – How to respond to comments like “But, my kid really loves this!”

01:06:03 – Q&A – How do parents sift through all of the information out there and find out what’s good and not (for language development)?

01:11:16 – Q&A – Can screens help with developing bilingualism?

01:12:17 – Q&A – What should parents do if they do not have abundant toys or books? Can apps be helpful in these situations?

01:14:23 – Q&A – Can you address the language gap models?

01:17:16 – Q&A – Suggestions for co-viewing when parents have multiple children of different ages?

01:18:11 – Q&A – Thoughts on navigating balance between screen use and other language opportunities?

01:21:19 – Final takeaways from each speaker

01:25:43 – Closing remarks from Executive Director of Children and Screens Kris Perry

[Kris Perry]: Hello and welcome to today’s Ask the Experts webinar, Finding Words Language Development and Screen Use. I am Kris Perry, Executive Director of Children and Screens: Institute of Digital Media and Child Development. Early childhood is a crucial time for developing language and communication skills. In today’s webinar, we’ll examine how digital media exposure influences this development in young children ages 0 to 5. We’ll discuss which types of media have the greatest impact on these foundational skills, and offer valuable insights for parents and caregivers on how best to support their child’s growth during this critical period. Now, I would like to introduce you to today’s moderator, Doctor Kathy Hirsh-Pasek. Kathy is the Lefkowitz Faculty Fellow in psychology at Temple University and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Her research examines the development of early language and literacy, and the role of play in learning and technology. She is the author of 17 books and hundreds of publications, has won numerous awards in her field, including the Association of Children’s Museums, Best Friends to Kids Award, and was inducted into the National Academy of Education. Welcome, Kathy.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: It is such a pleasure to be here with you, Kris, as it always is. Thank you for taking on such important topics. So I know you asked me for a very hard challenge today. You said, can I give people a sense of what language development is all about in just ten minutes? So I’m going to try to do that. So here we go. Speeding along. The first and most exciting thing to recognize is that language development actually starts well before the first words come out of a child’s mouth, even for a ten week old baby. You hear them start to coo, and when you answer those coos in a kind of conversation, you’re starting the foundations for language. And those coos, of course, grow and grow as kids start to smile, and we respond to their smiles at about three months of age. And then at six to eight months of age, they start babbling. And that is so exciting, especially when the first babbles that come out are usually ma-ma-ma-ma-ma, which makes us feel pretty good. And the pa-pa-pas, not so much Da-da-da yet. Then we go from there to that remarkable ten month period, when you see kids start to do what we sometimes call the “royal point”. It’s an amazing thing. They point at objects in the world. You respond to the points with the word. Look at that back and forth conversation. It turns out that those first words start to emerge at about a year. But of course, for some kids, if you’re learning two languages, it can be a little bit later. Or if you had ear infections, it can be a little bit later. And we standardly say that at about a year and a half, there’s a flood of words–19 to 21 months. There’s a growth spurt that’s enormous, two years, Those words start combining to create sentences and then you’re off. You’re off to the two year old, two and a half year old who knows how to say no all the time. To the three year old, who knows to ask “Why?” all the time. And all of this grows because human to human interaction and human to human, back and forth social conversations are the glue that makes language development happen. So I tried to give a flavor of this. Yes, there are still things happening when kids are four and five. They’re learning to ask questions, to use words like “because” and “wow”. There’s a lot that goes on here, but remember at base human language is a human to human interaction. So anything that we do that breaks that human to human interaction is something that’s not really helping us with language and might be hurting us. But, we have a panel of experts to tell us a lot more. So let me introduce some of our speakers today. The first speaker who you’re going to hear is Rebecca Dore and Rebecca Dore is absolutely fabulous. She’s the director of research and the senior scientist at the Crane Center for Early Childhood Research and Policy at the Ohio State University. See there, Rebecca, I got the “the” in. Her research focuses on early childhood media and language skills, children’s learning and educational media, and the role of parents and caregivers in supporting children’s learning for media. She’s especially especially interested in identifying and developing strategies to use media in positive ways to support learning and development. So at this point, I am turning it over to you, Rebecca.

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: Well, thank you so much for that introduction, Kathy, and thank you, everyone for being here today. So, we often have an attitude towards media use or quote unquote, screen time that has this very negative implication, as if children’s brains begin melting immediately upon looking at an iPad. But from an evidence-based perspective, I think it’s really important to consider why we think media use would have this negative impact on language development specifically. And the main explanation here is what researchers call time displacement, or the idea that media use may replace educational activities or that parent child interaction. That, as Kathy mentioned, we know is really crucial for language development. And there’s some support for this idea in the literature. For example, one study found that preschoolers’ TV use is related to less time spent book reading. So in this case, it’s really the lower levels of book reading that we would be concerned about, not the TV use itself. But there’s actually somewhat mixed evidence for the link between media use and language development when we look at it directly. Certainly, some research shows that media use is negatively associated with vocabulary and other language skills. But still other studies show no association at all. And further research shows that there are links for some age groups or language outcomes, but not for others. So, for example, in one study from my lab, we found that media use in two and a half year olds from low socioeconomic status backgrounds was related to expressive language or children’s ability to communicate their wants and needs, but not receptive language or vocabulary–children’s ability to understand spoken language and words. In that same study, we also looked at whether children’s media use adhered to a commonly referenced set of recommendations. The American Academy of Pediatrics published guidelines in 2016 that were reaffirmed in 2022, and they include a recommendation that preschoolers use less than one hour of media per day. So in this setting, in addition to looking at overall time spent using media, we also looked at whether children were above or below that threshold. And what we found is that only 24% of our sample met that less than one hour a day recommendation, but that meeting that recommendation actually wasn’t related to any of our language measures. Importantly, a lot of these studies, including my own and including both the positive and negative findings, are just looking at whether media use and language skills are related at a particular point in time, but not necessarily showing that media use causes language development, although the headlines certainly tend to interpret them that way. But in fact, it’s entirely possible and actually quite plausible that in many of these cases, characteristics of the parents or the families are actually leading to both higher media use and lower language skills. And other researchers have made the argument that most or even all of the relationship between media use and negative child development outcomes may be due to these types of parent and family characteristics. So as a critical consumer of science information, I think this is really crucial for parents and others to think about when you see those sort of scary headlines. And some research has tried to address this issue by measuring language skills at at least two different time points, so that we’re really looking at whether media use predicts gains in children’s language skills over time, which helps to account for any parent and family characteristics that are likely to be related to both media use and language skills. For example, in one study, my colleagues and I looked at whether media use predicted children’s language skill gains between the spring of kindergarten and the spring of their first grade year. And what we found is that, as you might expect, children who use very high levels of media had smaller language gains than children who used more moderate levels of media, but at the more moderate levels, were actually associated with larger language gains and little to no media use. This finding is in line with some other research, including one French study showing that two year olds who use more intermediate levels of screens had better language development compared to both high and low levels. So the thing I really want to emphasize here is that both of these studies are showing these sort of U-shaped patterns upside down U-shaped patterns, where the children with the best language development use moderate levels of media, rather than either a lot of media or little to no media. And our speculation here is that high levels of media use, may be displacing social interactions or those enriching activities that we know are really crucial for language development, but that these more moderate levels may actually be beneficial. They might be exposing children to new vocabulary and concepts that they wouldn’t see otherwise in their everyday lives. And in a more recent study, we looked specifically at characteristics of children’s media use in addition to overall time spent using media. So here I’m going to focus on how often they were using media in the evening overnight hours and how much they were engaging in joint media engagement or using media with others. And this is data from a larger project with preschoolers from low socioeconomic status backgrounds. And again, here we looked at whether media use predicted children’s language skill gains, this time from the fall to the spring of their pre-K year. And overall, we found that media use was mostly unrelated to language gains. Total time spent using media, nighttime media use, and joint media engagement with adults were all unrelated to children’s language gains. The only thing we found that was related was joint media engagement with peers, suggesting that in this case, media may actually be displacing that social interaction with peers that provide opportunities to hone children’s language skills. So we’re seeing really inconsistent associations between media use and language skills. When we look across studies and when we do see associations, they’re often only present at these pretty high levels of media use. So this all provides only a little bit of evidence for a specific one hour limit recommendation, at least as it relates to language development. And I also want to note a recent study showing that parent screen time guilt, or how anxious or guilty parents feel about giving their children time to use media, is actually related to lower parent-child relationship satisfaction. And we know that parent mental health and the parent child relationship is crucial to development more broadly. Families may also use media as a parenting tool, for example, to occupy children when they’re busy doing other tasks, which could have benefits for caregiver stress and overall family functioning. So there really is reason here to be concerned about promoting parent stress and guilt around screen use and among families families for whom a specific one hour limit may just not feel feasible in their lives, because societal pressure for strict hourly limits may actually, counterintuitively, contribute to negative child development outcomes by impacting the quality of parent child relationships and interactions. But when children are using media, there’s a lot of data to suggest that the content they’re using really matters for their language development. In fact, research shows that high quality educational media can promote vocabulary, and the educational media is positively associated with children’s developing language skills. But importantly, this is true for these older children. About two and a half or, two and a half or three and up. Because younger children actually have a lot more trouble learning new information or words from media. For example, one seminal study showed that toddlers didn’t learn new words from baby media like the Baby Einstein series, even when parents thought they did. However, another study showed that when parents watch videos with their toddlers, the media may actually provide parents with new topics of conversation to discuss with their children and subsequent interactions. So this could potentially support children’s language development, through their interaction with their parents. But for preschoolers and older children, how can we as parents or teachers identify high quality educational media? Well, for one, children learn more from media when the educational content is really integral to the narrative. So, for example, in one study, my colleagues and I collaborated with an educational app development company to create a space adventure game to teach new vocabulary. So this game introduces new vocabulary words in the context of the story, and then the child has to answer questions using their knowledge of the words to move the plot line forward. And indeed, we found that children did learn new vocabulary from this game, both in an immediate test in the lab context, and after playing the game over a few weeks in their classroom. One of my favorite commercially available examples of this idea is Super Y. In the episode shown here. The characters have to change the word “wall” into another “a-l-l” word that allows them to cross the path. So after trying tall, which just increases the height of the wall, they change it to ball, and it rolls away. Other shows that target vocabulary skills, specifically are Word Girl, who uses her large vocabulary skills to protect the world from villains, and “Martha Speaks” about a dog who ate alphabet soup and can now talk to her owners. Common Sense Media is a great website and app that provides expert reviews and ratings for many popular children’s shows and apps. And a second component is that elements in media that distract from the educational content can actually reduce learning. For example, many e-books have sound effects or animations that are entertaining but unrelated to the story or the information we want children to learn, and these seem to detract from children’s comprehension. However, elements that are closely tied to the educational content can actually be helpful for children’s learning. So an e-book that has an animation of a person fanning themselves can help promote children’s learning of the word “fan”. So when making choices between different media options, it can be helpful to think about what’s going on in a show or app that is flashy and fun, and whether the engaging elements help focus children’s attention on the educational content. A final component that I’ll mention here is that children learn from seeing the same media content repeatedly. So, for example, one study showed that children learn from a new word better when they saw it in the same video multiple times rather than seeing it in different videos. And another showed that children’s comprehension and learning from a Blue’s Clues episode kept improving when they watched the same episode every day for a week. So this suggests, even though repetition might seem tedious as a parent, allowing children to engage with the same content multiple times can actually enhance their understanding and learning. To conclude, the evidence here suggests that concerns about language development specifically do not uniformly support a specific time based recommendation for children’s media use. Instead, consider what activities the media use is taking the place of, and make sure that media is an addition to a well-rounded life instead of the primary focus. For language development, this means ensuring that children have opportunities to engage in meaningful social interactions and hear rich language in their environment, as Kathy mentioned, and I know our next speaker will talk about as well. And finally, when children are using media, choose high-quality educational content that introduces children to new concepts and embeds information in meaningful narrative structures. Ultimately, fostering a balanced environment that combines interactive play, social engagement and thoughtful media use is going to best support children’s optimal language development. And I’ll stop there.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Thank you so much, Rebecca. That was really great. I do have a couple questions for you. One is just a comment, which is I think you nailed a lot of the information that parents really want to know, that they don’t have to be scared to death. If you go to one hour and ten minutes, it’s right. Okay. And if you need to take a shower, it’s like, okay. Because I remember as a parent, I was so worried about this and the time issue. And, and you talk about the content as being really important as well. But I’m also aware that, you know, there’s literally hundreds of thousands of these apps out in the world. And one of the questions that we have for you is, how in the heck can you know? You gave a couple of good examples, but do you have a couple principles you could tell us as parents that will help us choose what might be good, as opposed to not so good content out there? Thanks.

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: All right. Absolutely. So this is actually, Kathy, relying on some of your work as well, but thinking about, apps and other media that can be more interactive and engaging for children. So when characters in media or in apps sort of speak directly to the child, allow them to interact in meaningful ways with the media content and the content they’re learning, that’s sort of trying to replicate or mimic the real life social interactions, those back and forth conversations that we have with children. So that can be helpful when looking for, for apps and other media content. And then thinking about what content you want children to learn. And again, making sure that you’re not seeing those sort of flashy, distracting, elements that are actually detracting from what children are going to be learning, and that that meaningful educational information is really integrated into the plotlines that that’s what children are focusing on, rather than these other flashy hotspots or even advertisements in apps.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Super. Also, I think what I’m hearing you say is that if the media can be more of a prompt, that’s great, and if it’s a substitute, maybe not. So not all media is educational media, so we need a real short answer here. And I’m also wondering what you mean by we’re, you know, by language, because language encompasses a lot like the ability to understand whole sentences, not just vocabulary. Did you measure whole sentences or did you measure vocab for your outcomes? Just a quickie on that.

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: Yeah, a couple of the things are focused specifically on vocabulary so I think that’s a really important point. But we think that a lot of the narrative content that children are watching, if it’s high quality educational narratives, are sort of providing at least examples of those, you know, sentences and more complex language. And again, as you mentioned, and I know that our next speaker will talk about as well, you know, using media to really extend the social interactions with parents into a new space, sort of adding new concepts and ideas for parents to talk to children about can be a really useful way to, as you said, use media as a prompt rather than using media as a substitute for those interactions.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Well, thank you so much. That was fabulous. I know you will be back soon for the group discussion. I’m going to invite Sarah to come up right now. Sarah Kucker directs the Kids In Development Lab at Southern Methodist University. Her research takes an interdisciplinary approach. Thank you for doing that. To examine the mechanisms of early language in cognitive development, with a particular focus on the role of digital use and technology in infancy and toddlerhood. Doctor Kucker is particularly interested in how the context of content of media use vary across individuals, which can have differential effects on development. So welcome, Sarah. We cannot wait to hear what you have to say.

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Thank you so much, Kathy, and thank you, Rebecca, for the really nice sort of orientation, to some of the same things that I’ll be discussing. So, I want to thank Rebecca for the nice orientation and the good overview of sort of where we see media impacting language development. And my goal, as both a researcher as well as sort of a teacher, and as part of the community is to understand why those different situations are going to impact our language. And so, I’ll tell you a little bit about some of the same things. I see some of the same things some of that Rebecca was talking about, but I’m really focused on the “why” the media is making a change. And to give them sort of a good overview or a good starting point. I want to start with a quick example of sort of, where do children even find words to begin with? Like off the title for this seminar. Where do they find and learn words? And so I want to show you a very short, video clip. This is of a parent and a child interacting. It’s a one hour long session, and I’ve just cut it down to about 10 seconds of different clips throughout that one hour to give you a snapshot. And I just want you to pay attention to the words that the kid is being exposed to and that social interaction that is occurring here.

[Video Clip from Dr. Sarah Kucker’s Presentation]:I reckon. I’ll go for it. Okay. Then, there’s this zipper. just for you. Yo yo. You can find them and they and I think, oh, between two, two and four hour worker ads and teacher. Well, for your start, they really. Microwave. For different things. You see the money. Woof woof. Reconcile. Where’s the zipper? Zipper. Yoyo. Yoyo. Violin. Banana. A train. Choochoo. Flour. Sugar. Butter. Eggs. Adventure. Microwave. See the bunny?

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: So you see there’s a, that was a very short clip of, and a very condensed clip of lots of words these children are being exposed to, lots of different individual words, and in lots and lots of different contexts. And so when children are learning words, when they’re getting language, they’re getting it from the people around them, but as you saw in this clip, they’re also getting it from their toys, they’re getting it from books. And as Rebecca discussed, they’re also getting it from media, and they’re getting it from the digital media, especially increasingly in modern day. And so we know that an average two year old is being exposed to videos or a TV or some sort of screen at least two hours a day. And so really, considering the media as a source for their language is critical. Now to learn from each of these sources, for children to actually get words into their vocabulary and get language and get grammar and sentence structure, they need lots of opportunities that are rich and interactive and social. So, we have done decades and decades of work, and most of the people on this panel have actually done a lot of this research showing that when children are engaged in really rich, interactive and social moments, they’re really going to learn those words in a much stronger capacity. And so this is a clip from this video, when the parent and the child are engaging and in this case the mom says, “Here’s a banana, do you want a bite?” And sort of points the banana out. Now in this one case, the child has an opportunity to learn the banana, or what the word banana is if they have not learned it prior to this moment. And I want to point some things out that are important here. One is that the banana is sort of front and center. It’s really focused. The child is, able to look at it. It’s the center of the conversation. And the parent and the child are both also making eye contact. There’s this social interaction that is happening where the parent is engaging with the child, the child is engaging back with the parent, and they both are also then attending to this object in the middle. It’s something we call ”joint attention”. Or they’re attending to the world. And in this way, the parent can really support the child’s learning. So when the child goes, “Oh!”, and leans forward to take a bite, the parent responds in real time and leans forward and says “Mmm!”, and lets the child take a bite. And you get that back and forth. And we know that is really, really helpful for children learning words, and learning within their natural environment. Now, you can imagine that that changes a lot when we are now doing this interaction, when it is on a screen. So when you’re interacting with this cartoon, talking banana on a tablet, the things that you might be learning about a banana are different. And the ways that you interact with that banana are going to be different than in this rich, real life interaction. And so it makes a lot of sense that digital media changes the language input. And it does that sort of in two ways. One, and Rebecca very nicely gave an overview, is that it displaces the interaction and the input. And so when you’re on a tablet, you’re not reading books and you’re not talking. And so we’re getting less quantity of input. We’re also getting lower quality, which is something I’ll come back to here in a second. But the digital media also makes it harder to find, encode and remember information. And that’s simply because information is just different from a real world experience. So when you’re learning on a tablet, it’s less hands on, it’s less physical, it’s less multi-modal. And by that I mean that it uses fewer senses. And so the kid playing with the tablet gets maybe just the touch and touching on the screen. But that’s really limited. They maybe get the color of an object on the screen. Contrast that to the banana in his hand. He’s actually feeling the rubbery texture of it. He’s taking a bite of it and tasting it. He’s smelling it. He might be hearing mom saying the word banana at the same time. So you’re getting all of this input from multiple different senses, and that really helps solidify it in terms of memory and encoding and cognition. And that just can’t happen on a tablet. Especially when you’re talking about our youngest users of the tablet who really can’t even physically interact with the tablet as much. But these tablets and these screens are also less social. They’re less interactive. And so you’re not spinning the banana around and seeing it in multiple angles. Parents may not be talking about those. So especially when parents might have a cell phone on, they’re being distracted by that phone. They may not be talking quite as much or saying as many words while the child is interacting. And so, because we know that language rests on these sort of crucial social and multimodal experiences, it’s really no surprise that digital media is then going to alter the ways we learn language. And I’ll give you a few examples. And, I’m going to reinforce this point that Rebecca made, is that it’s not all negative. So when we are thinking about it’s going to alter the ways we learn language. Sometimes that is really detrimental. But there might be cases where that is not detrimental. So just a few examples of the ways that digital media alters that process, that social that interactive, that multimodal learning. And the first example here, is that, is when you are learning something through a tablet. As I’ve mentioned, the information that you’re getting from that tablet is different. You’re getting sort of a 2D here, in this case, this banana, you might learn that it’s a yellow crescent shaped item. And it talks, which is not at all the way it is in the real world. And so trying to take this information that you learned about a banana on the tablet and in this cartoon and then apply it to the real world can be really, really difficult. And what we know is that this process is called a “transfer deficit”. It’s present until children are at least three years old. And so it takes children a number of years to really mature cognitively, that they can take information that they learned in one modality and transfer it to another modality. So when they are learning information in a tablet, they may actually learn something in that tablet, though that is really difficult at younger ages. But then if you can’t apply it to their real world, and apply it to the world of the world around you, that information’s going to be relatively limited. And not until we get to be about preschool, where our brains are even capable of processing the information in those multimodal ways. And so that’s just one reason why some of the content that’s being presented on a tablet or on a touchscreen or video, especially at the very youngest ages, children can’t extract that information and then apply it to the world. As another example, we know that things like background television can really distract from that social interaction. So you’re just not getting the same information in the first place. And so we know there’s a number of studies, including some from Dr. Dore, that when the television is on in the background. And this could be a television. It could be a computer playing a video, but some sort of background media. During the parent-child interaction, both the parent and the child are distracted by that, and they’re more likely to turn around to disrupt the interaction. So, parents are saying less. And the things that they’re saying are also lower in quality. So their sentences may be shorter or they may not repeat the information quite as much. They may give less information around the object. So instead of saying, “Here, take a bite of the banana,” they just simply say, “Here’s a banana” and then they got distracted. That is all over time is going to add up and and really lower the input. We also have this problem of technoference and technoference is technology based interferences in which the parents own use of technology can detract from the interaction with the child. And so we’ve all had this phenomenon where the phones and the tablets are distracting. It’s probably happened to you during this webinar even. You know, your phone goes off or your computer dings then you look to the side and that’s a real life phenomenon given that technology is everywhere and we’re not really going to get away from it, especially as adults, it’s going to be here all the time. And so it’s really hard to have a focus on your child and be talking to them while you also have this technology that’s happening. And so that’s another way, a reason why technology can detract from those interactions. And so we know that sort of language depends on these social, these multimodal experiences. Digital media is going to alter those social and multimodal experiences in many cases, making them less social and less multimodal. But again it’s not all bad. So in order to offset, that negative impact of digital media’s impact, we really should be focusing on heightening those social experiences. And we can actually use media in some ways to do that. So you can use media in ways that it does not remove the social elements or does makes it more interactive and makes it include multiple modalities. And so really what we know, and Rebecca talked about some of this, is that we can heighten multimodal and social elements, through interactive, educational programs that can supplement real world learning. So when kids actually have to touch something, when they have to give a response, that then makes the whole program proceed to the next slide. That can be helpful. And in fact, if that’s it’s the program is about something they learned about in the real world. Well, yeah. Now they’re just getting another example of it. And we know that variability can be good. So these really interactive educational programs that instead of just touching or passively watching they’re moving stuff around, they’re actively responding. But we do need to be careful about what might be educational. And this is some work that that Kathy has actually done where what is labeled as educational may not always be educational. So, don’t take it just for face value. So if you look at YouTube and it just says, oh, this is educational. Take it a step further and actually look about what the elements are. Because just because it’s singing the ABCs doesn’t necessarily mean it’s being presented in a way that is helpful for the child to be learning from it. We also know we can minimize background TV, so when we have less than when the TV is just simply not on. Then we have higher quantity and quality of language information. Or when you’re interacting with the kid, instead of the phone sitting next to you, put it on the table and it’s less likely to be distracting. Those minor things again will add up over time. Once or twice having the phone there a couple of times is not going to make a huge difference, but over time, those would add up. We also know that there are types of media that can be really helpful. And we’ve all used FaceTime. We’re using Zoom now. Right. And these are real. These are real. These are, yeah I’m using a computer screen, but we’re still talking to each other. We’re having a conversation. And that conversation is contingent. Remember this example about the banana like, Here have a bite.” And then the kid moves in. And then as the kid moves in, “Mmm!”. And there’s that back and forth. You can get that back and forth as long as you’ve got a strong internet connection. You get that contingent back and forth. And when you have that back and forth, we know that children can actually learn from that. And then when you’re co-using, don’t just co-view, don’t just sit next to a child, but actually engage with them. Live social partner helps learning a lot more. And so use the media just as another toy, basically. Just like you would if you’re building blocks, you can build blocks on the tablet and talk with the kid. Then you can supplement that social interaction. So in sum, we want to use the media in social and interactive ways because that’s how kids are learning language. So things like video chat are much better than passive videos. Using media for education or connecting reasons is much better. Offset media with more social interactions, and supplement media with some real world context. And consider the broader context of which the media is being used. So I like to say instead of counting the minutes, count sort of the “How?” and the “Why are you using it?” Media is not a great babysitter. Though, just as Dr. Dore was saying, one hour here and there is not the end of the world. But really consider the “Why and how?” So, minimize media, especially under three. And if you’re going to have this, then make sure you also have lots of this. Thanks for all of the caregivers and children over the years that have helped advance our understanding of knowledge. And some information from my lab: we’re continuing doing some of this research so if there’s any parents that are interested, we’ve got more information on our website.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Well thank you so much, Sarah. Boy, that was a lot of information. I was thinking I should come back as a talking banana, but, but actually, instead of that, I’m going to ask you to push this a little. I think there’s, I think there’s a through line here, and the through line is, one that language isn’t just about memorizing vocabulary words, but about transferring them, which I think was in your very early slide. And also, you can’t transfer them if you don’t have them in like sentences and stuff. So language is a little bit bigger than, you know, like your SAT words. Pounding out the SAT words, no matter how you pound them out, it’s probably not going to be the way to learn language. The second is I think you rightly point out this engagement, this full engagement that’s needed for language development. So, let me ask a question because you get to it at the end, you get to it at the beginning, and it was one for Rebecca as well. Like, I’m a busy parent, you know. Now you’re telling me I really shouldn’t, you know, check my email every five seconds, which I totally agree with you because as one son said to me, which was when I put my phone down, he said, “Is it that you don’t think I’m important?” This is when we could actually talk. “Is it that you just don’t have time for me?” So the message we send when the dings and the bings are, you know, what attracts us all the time is “You’re not the one who’s important, it is.” And I know none of us as parents want to do that. On the other hand, we do need the five minutes to find out what is going on in our world, especially since we’re tuned in all the time. And we do sometimes need to, like, take a shower, you know, without having them in the room. So, what do we do? This feels like a quandary. And I’m wondering, I’ll ask the whole group this at the end again, I’m sure. But Sarah, since you mentioned it, could you help us out here?

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Yes. And I actually want to draw on some research that’s been done on the reasons why we use different media use. So there’s a bulk of research from the CAFE consortium and Heather Corin and Rachel Barr are doing work on “Why are we using media?” And if you think about it as sort of what are you using media for, not necessarily in that one moment, but over time. So in that one moment, yeah, you might have to take a shower. So here is the tablet. Keep yourself busy. I know you’re going to be safe for the next five minutes. Fine. But if that’s the majority of the time, then you’re missing out on those social interactions. And so, but if you’re using media majority of time for educating and for connecting, purposely using the media as a social connection tool. Well, then the majority of the time, then you’re getting sort of a rich interaction with the kids. And so I tell parents, don’t fret about the kids being exposed. They’re going to be even if parents are like, “No, my kid has zero media.” I guarantee your child has seen you use your phone. And so I, I think being transparent about like, “Oh, yep, I’m just checking it real quick. Mommy just needs to check the time.” And now we’re going to go back to playing. So that’s a good example of like balancing that social interaction. And there’s also some work showing that when you do have to, sometimes you’re going to have to let the kid use the media and keep them occupied. Try giving them Legos instead, sometimes that keeps them busy, but if they’re really not having it, then just supplement it. Make sure that you spend extra time talking after and asking them “What did you do? What was on that? What did you see?” And taking the stuff that they were seeing on that movie into the real world.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Yeah, that’s such good advice and thank you, Sarah, for that advice. Yeah, yeah. I am going to, also ask all of you later. You know, there’s some kids learning two languages. And the assumption so far has been everybody’s learning one. But I want us to deal with bilingualism, a little bit with disabilities. We’ll get to in the next talk, I’m sure. And not every house looks like the house in that video. And I think maybe that’s something we should address, too. I saw a lot of books and a lot of toys, but I also am very, very mindful that not all parents can afford to have all those books or does have all those books or all those toys. But before we get to the overall discussion, I am going to, well, welcome Angie to come in. And, Angie Neal is the policy advisor for speech language pathology and early literacy at the South Carolina Department of Education. She has a big job here. She is also a board member with the State Education Agencies Disabilities Council and the American Speech Language Hearing Association School Issues Advisory Board. She is the recipient of the Rolland Van Hattum Award for Contributions to Schools and the Nancy McKinley Award for Leadership in Speech Language Pathology. And I am also very honored just to say that having a speech language pathologist here, I think, is a really big deal for all of you out there as parents and leaders who want to know about language development. So welcome, welcome, Angie. Take it away. 

[Angie Neal]: All right. Thank you so much for having me as a speech language pathologist. I love, love, love to talk about speech and language. And this area is no exception whatsoever. Because what we know is, it’s all about building a brain that is ready to arrive at school, ready to learn. So most importantly, really appreciating that the skills that we need for reading, they begin well before kids walk in the doors of our kindergarten. So children need, as you’ve already heard today, they need to have lots of words, lots of opportunities to be exposed to words before they start reading. So we really need to appreciate that, it’s not just the food that we put into our bodies that support healthy development, but also what we’re putting in our developing brains. And just like we know that eating a piece of cake, chocolate cake like that on the screen there, is completely okay, from time to time, and use of screens can be fine depending on what we’re doing and what it might be replacing. But we also know eating a lot of chocolate cake every day is not going to be good for development. So, what might be some of the signs that screens are becoming an obstacle to building a brain that is ready to learn, which is good to know because as our other presenters and talked about, trying to figure out whether screen use is or is it harmful and how much or how little, it can be kind of complicated. So let’s think about when might it be a sign that things are getting complicated? So first, if your child is getting very angry and very upset when they’re asked to turn off a screen or put them away, that is a big red flag. Why? Because essentially what this is saying is that your child is overstimulated. And so that is why it’s hard for them to get off of the screen, because they have to go from being way up here with all the stimulation coming at them, all the way back down to the pace of real life. Similarly, when children can’t calm down when they’re without a screen. So if you think about it like a pacifier or, when children suck their thumbs, they use those tools to calm and soothe themselves, as infants, until they learn how to do it without them. And just as we wouldn’t expect to see children walking around with pacifiers for an extended period of time, as they get older because they’ve learned how to calm down without them. It’s the same thing as it relates to children and screens, and that sweet spot for developing that ability to control emotions is right around the ages of 3 to 5. Some other red flags to look for are increasingly poor behavior, increasingly poor social interactions, and irritability when they’re not on a screen, spending time off of the screen thinking about how to get back on the screen, and also any negative impacts on sleep or eating or development or their education as a whole. So–all of that to say, there’s a need to consider whether or not screens are negatively impacting those things. Now, here’s a few tips for if we do think that they may be negatively impacting that child in those areas. So–first I want you to think about screens like a power tool. Now, you’d never hand over the keys to your car to a ten year old, or hand a five year old a chainsaw. But the screens today that we have are more powerful than the computers that first put a man on the moon. And screens are very powerful tools because they’re expanding your child’s world. It’s giving them freedom. It’s giving them access. But also these power tools can harm themselves as well as others. So before we get children access to these power tools, we need to teach them: What are the expectations that come along with the opportunity to have a screen? And also because screens are not going away, we need to make sure we’re teaching them screen free times and locations, where we won’t use screens, as well as times, screen-possible times and locations. My personal favorites for when not to have screens: at the dinner table, in the car while riding around town, and before bed because those are your optimal times for conversation. And then if screens do look like they’re becoming an obstacle, that this power tool is no longer something your child is able to handle well, then you need to talk about it with your child. Explain why, and make a plan together for how to scale back. Another one of my favorite tips is to change the device setting. You could do this on your iPhone and lots of other tools. Change it from color to grayscale, so just black and white, and automatically that screen is going to be less interesting and less stimulating. Now, the problem is going to be they’re going to say, “What happened to the screen?!” “I guess it’s broken. I don’t know what we’re going to do. You just use it as it is.” The other thing I recommend as a tip is to plan ahead, bring a busy bag. So, when you know you’re going to have to wait in line or sit at the doctor’s office, just create a little bag with Play-Doh, crayons, stickers, Hot Wheels, and other fun toys and activities. Another big tip is make sure you are modeling for your child–how you calm yourself, how you problem solve. So for example, if you’re driving in traffic and you have to go on a detour, you share with them, “Oh my goodness, we’re going to have to go on a detour. It’s okay. We’ll go this way and we will still get there on time. I’m just going to take a deep breath and follow this act. So we’re modeling how to calm. As I mentioned too, be aware of your own use of screens, because as mentioned, whatever you’re looking at is perceived by your child as what’s most important to you. And we want to always demonstrate that our children are the most important thing in the world to us. And that means sometimes putting your phone in airplane mode, so that the people who aren’t even physically present in the room aren’t stealing that precious time that you and your child have together. You know? Now let’s think about co-viewing that’s been mentioned. What are some tips for how to do that? Well, just make sure you’re watching what your child is watching, so you can make those connections between what’s on the screen and the real world. Because there are some great things that are available on screen, such as Sesame Street. But if Cookie Monster is sharing tips for how to calm down, but no one is there to remind them about these strategies–when it’s really happening, when they’re really upset, Cookie Monster is going to be sad. So when co-viewing, figure out what the main idea is of what’s on the screen. Are they–is Miss Rachel talking about colors or animals or specific words or even regulation strategies? Then, when you see these colors or words or animals in the real world, make those connections. Hey, Miss Rachel was talking about the color blue today. Hey, the color of the carpet is this in the dentist office right here. Wooo! And then finally, set up activities that reinforce this. So, have them sort your laundry with you. So, have them pull out all of the things that are blue and you do the rest. As discussed earlier, that ability to calm without a screen is very important. But let me explain why. So, this ability to calm yourself is referred to as self regulation, essentially just regulating yourself and your emotions. Now, the young girl sitting down on the left. Boy, how does she look ready to listen and learn to whatever that teacher is saying? But what about these other friends? How ready do they look to be able to learn about Abraham Lincoln or pumpkins, or even addition and subtraction? Now, to make this connection to you. If I told you, you just won the $40 million lottery. How ready and available are you going to be to listen and learn from anything else that I’m going to say? And I’m going to say, you probably won’t. You’ll be like our little friend on the end here in yellow, who’s probably just learned she’s going on a field trip to her favorite place, the zoo. And then everything else the teacher says is completely gone after that. So, we have to learn how to get back to that neutral line. Now, the way we do this, or the way children do this, is by watching what you do, watching what our parents and other adults do, and also being taught how to calm down. So, for example, when they go to the doctor’s office for their well-child visit and they get the shot, every time we hold them, and rock them, and shhh them, and tell them it’s going to be okay, while we pat them on the back, we’re teaching them how to calm. But we can also do things like name that emotion. Are they sad versus frustrated versus disappointed? Also, how do you appropriately express disappointment? And then what are some of the strategies we can go from being disappointed back to neutral, so that we’re ready and available to learn? Now, if you really want to know, one of the secrets to building a brain that is ready to learn. Lean in. Listen close. Here goes…in conversation! Conversation is the secret sauce. It is. Conversation is the most efficient, effective early learning system that we have, because through our conversations, children learn words. They learn how we solve problems. They learn how to socially interact with each other, which we can’t learn from a device. And so at the end of every day, I hope you’ll ask yourself, have I had a conversation today? Have I had more than one conversation today? How many turns did we take in our conversations? Or did I do all the talking? Which as a speech language pathologist is very hard for me,  because that’s a lot of what I do. Now, because the number of conversational turns is important. I want to express to you why that is. So, the goal is about 40 conversational turns, on average per hour. And that seems like a lot. But adults, we can get up to 75 conversational turns in five minutes. So, it goes very fast. But the impact of that average of 40 conversational turns, an average, even at the age of 18 to 24 months, resulted, based on the research in IQ scores that were higher than children who didn’t have that many conversational turns ten years later. Ten years later! It makes that much of a difference. So, that’s why that pictures there of that little fella and his dad, that little fella is probably 14 months old. And if you’ve seen this video before, you know that child is not using words that we would recognize. He is using words and intonation, in his sentence  structure. Sounds like words, but he’s really just babbling and using the word structure he knows, which is not formal word structure yet. But boy, howdy is that dad responding to him and getting involved in conversation with him. Now, finally, here’s a few tips to support conversation and language development at home, and also in school. So first, my first big recommendation is talk like a cooking show host like Rachel Ray or Guy Fieri. So, as you talk about what you’re doing while you’re doing it, you’re exposing children to all of the words that describe what you’re doing. Similarly, talk like a sports announcer, or a golf announcer, or football announcer. They’re not describing what they’re doing. They’re describing what someone else is doing. So, by the same token, you can describe what the child is doing. Again, giving them the words to match their actions, that maybe they didn’t know. As I mentioned, do some thinking aloud, problem solving. And also final two big tips is avoid questions that can be answered with one word, because you and I both know that as soon as you ask your child how is your day? They’re going to respond with, “Fine.” So instead, think about how we can ask those same questions in ways that will elicit more language, such as tell me three things about your day. And when you know three things about your day that gives us more fuel for more conversation. And then also make sure that your conversations aren’t just you asking questions. And it’s not a test. It’s really about connecting with them and finding about how they’re doing, what they think, how they feel. Now, at home, I’m not going to read over all of these different tips, but I did want to share them with you. And I also want to highlight my favorite one, which is to sing, and dance, and laugh and have fun, and make memories. Because if you think back to your childhood, what do you remember? Do you remember building forts, riding bikes, playing army man, or princess, or hide and go seek? And now think about what you want your children to remember. What do you want them to remember? Also read to your child. Oh my goodness, there’s so much language that comes from books. It’s too much to even hardly scratch the surface here. But to build on what has already been talked about, use some digital books. There’s a lot to be said for digital books, but again, when the digital book has bells and whistles and interaction, such as if you push Curious George and he climbs up the tree or throws a coconut. Now, the child is focused on Curious George and what he is doing, and not the accumulated meaning of the story. So, that is your only caveat with digital books. And then one of my favorite activities is called, “Toy Box Turnover.” Essentially, all you’re doing is you’re going to get that random box of stuff, because you all have that random box of toys. Turn it over, and you’re going to–every time we do this activity, sort it in a different way. You’re going to sort the ocean animals, from farm animals, the transportation items from humans. Sort based on things that start with the “ch” sound. There’s so many ways to do that activity together. Now, what about activities to support language in school? Well, one thing that we know is technology use is not just at home or in the car. Technology use is also happening in schools. But we need to also appreciate about the replacement or displacement as it’s been referred to. What is it replacing or displacing? And what we know is play is critical to developing the foundation, for not only social development but also reading comprehension. So, we do not want to let play and conversation become replaced by time spent on screens. In school, we also need to make sure we’re not afraid of using the big words in the classroom, because those big words are the words that we find most often in the books. So, for example, if you’ve read the book, “Click, clack, move”, there’s a reason the author doesn’t say, “The cows were tired of waiting.” Instead, the author says, “impatient”. He uses that big word, and so using those big words in our conversation exposes them to hearing new words, which they’re going to come across when they read. And research tells us that even the preschool teachers’ use of these big, sophisticated words, positively impacts their reading comprehension all the way up into fourth grade. And of course, don’t forget about all of these other things listed here on the slide. Our favorite games, and group games. And then finally, I’m going to wrap up with just a few questions to consider if you are in a school. Questions to ask relative to, how do we make sure that we’re thinking about technology and using it appropriately, especially relative to how we establish those foundational skills first? And with that, I hand it back over, and I’m looking forward to our panel discussion. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]:  Well, I–thank you so much. This was absolutely amazing, with so many practical tips, I have to remember every one of them. Meanwhile, I have to give you one more to add to your gray screen, which I think is absolutely brilliant, which is, my grandkids go around saying that anyone who’s holding a phone is a two-legged screen watcher. And man, that gets the parent right away, or the adult who picks up their phone or tries to hide it somewhere. Are you another one of those two-legged screen watchers? And it seems to work really, really well. Thank you again, for pointing out how important conversations are. Just I hope everybody heard, that is kind of a biggie. I just want to ask you one quick question. And then we’re going to go into a panel discussion, and I hope everyone will pop back on. So the question for you is, there are some kids out there who have some disabilities making the conversation really hard to do. They don’t answer back as quickly as other kids. What should you do in that case? 

[Angie Neal]: So, if it’s just a matter of they’re not answering back as quickly, it could be that they’re still processing the language. They’re still thinking about it. And for me, it’s very hard as a speech language pathologist to give them that wait time. But it is appropriate to make sure that you do give them that wait time to really process and think through, before we jump in to try to answer the question for them. 

Kathy Hirsh-Pasek: That is perfect. So I think we’re going to move on. Can I welcome everybody back right now? Because I’ve heard so many interesting themes here, and I think I want to tap into a number of them. The first one I’d love you to all just think about is, what do we do for kids who are speaking more than one language? Let’s go with Rebecca first, and then Angie may want to pop in, and Sarah, but feel free to make this a discussion, because I’m kind of believing in what Angie said. And it feels to me like conversation is the way to go, rather than sitting there and being called on. So let’s just do it, all right? So Becca, give it a go. 

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]:  Yes! Thanks, Kathy. Yeah, I agree, I’m really interested to hear what Sarah and Angie have to say about this as well. I certainly don’t have expertise on bilingual language development, but from my, you know, understanding in this research, there is evidence that, you know, older children can learn in a second language the same way that they can learn, their vocabulary from, again, high quality educational media. But again, the youngest children, children under a year, two years, there’s that infant and toddler age aren’t really getting much out of screen media overall in terms of learning new information. And as Sarah was talking about, being able to transfer new information from the screen context to reality. So, if you’re trying to teach bilingual children, you know, a bilingual child, new information or a second language in that there’s really young age ranges, that’s probably not going to be effective. But again, building on what everyone’s been saying today, when, when parents can use media with their children. So if you’re trying to, you know, keep a home language, developing in your child and you want to be able to use that media in that home language, it could encourage parents to talk to their children in that language and, and really build on that rich language environment in the home as well. But interested in Sarah and Angie’s thoughts.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Guys, you have any questions?

[Angie Neal]: And so I would add, I would completely add to exactly what you said, which is the use of technology, especially like digital books and things, can expose children who speak another language to general American English. But just like you said, that co-viewing content, so that you’re watching it with the child and making those connections and you’re learning it at the same time, that is one of the beauties or beautiful things about having access to that technology. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: So I just would say, Angie, you know, to your point, you’re right that if we can just get the conversation going that way, it’s really powerful. Many, many years ago, when I was first coming into this field in the dinosaur age, um, and they thought that this was going to be a brilliant way to help hearing children of deaf parents learn English. So, they plopped kids who were hearing children of deaf parents in front of televisions to see what would happen. And it was an utter and complete failure. So, I think that’s something to note, too, that just using the technology and getting information blabbed at you. And there’s been recent studies, by Patricia Cole and others that reinforce that it just doesn’t work. Sarah, you are on. 

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Yeah. I’ll just echo whatever was first said. And I’ll preface this by saying, I don’t think we have enough research on bilingual and digital media. I mean, the whole digital media field and research is relatively young. And so then considering it in these other populations is very limited. But I want to highlight like this conversational piece and thinking about particular families that might have different generations that might speak different languages. Using something like Skype and FaceTime can be a really beneficial way for that child to be exposed to the language with their grandparents. And those conversations actually have effects outside of just the language and the use of the language. We know that FaceTime can be really good for bonding. There’s some really rich studies on when you use video studies to connect with older grandparents, it increases the bond between the the grandchild and the grandparent. And so, that’s an extra bonus if you’re going to be using it for that. So, yeah, use it. I think same tips apply, when you’re using media for a bilingual or for using a second learning a second or third language. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: All right. Sounds good. So, I get a lot of parents who tell me all the time, they say, “Well, you don’t understand, my kid really loves this.” Okay, so now this can be pretty much anything on a screen. And, and I’m wondering what you guys say with, “But they really love screen time. I mean, they they really enjoy if they’re there for two hours, you should see how they sit and watch. Go. I see Angie’s, like, all over this. Go, Angie. 

[Angie Neal]: Yes. So, the one I get this about the most is Miss Rachel. So, if you’re not familiar with Miss Rachel, Miss Rachel appears on a screen and the background is completely white, and the way that Miss Rachel is interacting with the children on the screen is nothing short of magical. Essentially, she’s doing everything that a speech language pathologist would do to pull children into this language. So, to the fact that your child loves Miss Rachel, awesome. But as I’ve noted on that screen, too much of a good thing is no longer a good thing. And if no one is making that connection between what Miss Rachel is talking about with your child and the real world, I’m sure Miss Rachel would be equally sad as Cookie Monster would be if you’re missing that opportunity there as well. So again, I think the big takeaway for me is, too much of a good thing is no longer a good thing, but also kind of emulate what Miss Rachel is actually doing. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Anyone else have a comment on that? Sarah, Rebecca, do you want to chime in?

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: Yeah, I was just going to add in one of the toddler studies that I mentioned where they showed that children, really young children, really weren’t learning from videos like Baby Einstein. There was a lot of evidence for parents of parents saying, “Oh, my toddler just loves it. They just stare at it. They watch it for hours. They must be learning from it. Right?” And what they found in that study was that parents’ preference for the media was actually related to how much they thought their child was learning, not to how much their child was actually learning when the researchers measured children’s learning, and so the idea here is that, you know, parents see children engaging in a screen. And yes, it’s very flashy and colorful and exciting, and the music is fun. And so children are going to look at it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re getting anything out of it. And that parents are probably the ones that are supporting that language development. If you think about how much time children might be spending looking at Baby Einstein, they may be watching that for half an hour, an hour a day, but they’re interacting with you for, you know, eight, ten, 16 hours a day, and that they’re probably getting a lot of their language that way. And then parents, like, misattribute that to these, these videos that children are watching, especially when they seem so engaged with them.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Sarah, do you want to add anything?

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Yeah, I was thinking about why the child is engaged with it. Like, if they’re engaged with it because they’re older and they’re actually learning new languages or something, that’s great, right? But if they’re looking at it because it–if they’re engaged and excited about it, because it’s fun and it’s flashy and they’re just grabbing their attention, we actually know from non-media studies that when a child focuses on an object and picks it and is playing with it because it’s novel, not for any other reason, but just it’s never been seen before. They don’t actually retain that information as well. But when they’re picking it because they’re like, well, it’s not that. It’s not that, I want to explore that, mom labeled this. This is what we’ve been talking about, and sort of this learning, then you actually do see some retention. So, thinking about why they’re engaged with it and, and what they’re getting out of it–not just they look excited about it. Why are they excited about it? 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Yeah, I think I think what you just pointed out is, you know, sometimes it’s the same as Candy Crush, right? I mean, we may find it very exciting and we can get duped by it all, but it’s not, it’s not really giving us anything. And I think that’s part of the problem that we have as parents a lot. There’s so much to sort through and, you know, as we just learned, if we didn’t really know it, the new report that came out of the government, saying parents are stressed. I think, don’t we know that kind of already? But we’re getting too much information. And part of the question here, now that I have you all as experts on the panel, is how do I sift through that? I mean, through the mommy blogs, through the many incredible banquet of offerings, to find out what’s really good and what’s really not for language development. Because a lot of times, I mean, I keep hearing stuff that I might just tune into anything, and it’s kind of like eating chocolate cake all day, as you said, Angie. So what do you guys have as advice there? 

[Angie Neal]: So I would jump in and say, you know your child best. And so when you know your child, you know whether or not your child is acting in a way that is positively responding to what’s going on or, you know, or you feel even that they’re not responding in a way that they probably should. So, that just sticks, you know, stick with your mom instinct and, and take everything that you read with a grain of salt. And again, under the lens of how you know, your child is responding. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Whoa, that is such powerful advice. So, I just want to make sure I understand it. So, you are saying that as a mom, I can trust myself and I can trust myself to know my kid, and I don’t really need to reach out to the millions of pieces of advice that are coming in every single second to help me learn what to do. Is that a fair assessment of what you just told me?

[Angie Neal]: That is absolutely a fair assessment. Some of the people who are pointing all the blogs and whatnot out, are not necessarily experts in the field. You do want to, if you’re not able to trust yourself, then go to experts in the field–like your pediatrician or your local speech language pathologist, or even your child’s teacher.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Alright, anyone else want to weigh in here? I mean, are you feeling relieved? I’m feeling relieved. Okay, I want to try with another one here. You know, I see cases and have seen cases where people are so worried that, you know, they don’t speak English, let’s say. But they have marvelous Spanish skills. So, what should they be doing? Should they be, like, really working to make sure that they don’t use their Spanish? Or should they maybe be working to let their kid learn Spanish? And if you’re going to help your kid be bilingual, how in the world do you do it? Sarah, you look like you have something to say here. 

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Same thing as Rebecca said before. I mean, you’re going to give them exposure. Give them interactions, give them opportunities to use the language, and don’t be alarmed if your two-year-old that’s bilingual feels like they’re delayed. Because then, once you take into account both of the languages, they probably actually know more than an English-only kid, they’re just having to learn it twice. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Hmmm. So, is bilingualism okay? 

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]:  It’s definitely not a bad thing. I mean, they’re–you’re just learning differently though, because you have two words for everything. So, the ways that you sort of process information might be a little bit different. But it’s not bad. You just process and your trajectory might be a little bit different. And that’s where I think some of the trusting your gut, like Angie said, but then also using some resources like the “Children and Screens Resources”, we know are validated. We’ve got experts that are putting information out there and that might give some guidelines as well. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay, Angie, you had a real response to this. So, I want you to respond too. 

[Angie Neal]: Yes. So, I would say especially from a school-based perspective, it is not only valuable when a child speaks another language, but also when they speak another dialect. This is the language your child is loved in. This is the language in the dialect the people they love grew up in. And so under no circumstances do we want to discourage that. But we do want to make sure that they get to the point where they’re able to access the language of school, which is general American English. So most definitely the key takeaway should be, no! Well, please let them learn their other language, their native language, the language they were loved in. But also make sure that we’re able to get them to the point where they also understand general American English or school.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay, Rebecca you look like you want to chime in? 

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: No, I think that this, that’s all–this is all great. The only thing I would add is that, you know, in terms of benefits, that there actually are some evidence that there are benefits in terms of children’s executive function skills when they’re bilingual and if learning two languages, because they are having to do that, sort of switching back and forth. Right? So getting practice and thinking back and forth in those two different languages, going back and forth between different contexts, and different people who might speak different languages in their home or in their environment. And that, even if, like Sarah was saying that it’s a little bit more difficult and they might look a little language delayed early on that sort of over time that, sort of evens out. And they might have these other benefits and other areas of their cognitive development. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Alright. So, I’m going to chime in by saying, bottom line, from what I’m hearing from all of you, is being bilingual is a good thing, not a bad thing. And everybody ought to be bilingual. So, I think we should walk away with that. But the question then is, how do we become bilingual? So, let’s say if I’m from an all-English household, you know, maybe I should just get something on the screen that’s going to teach my kid Spanish. So, is that is that going to work? What’s your gut? Angie, I can see it. I can see in your face. 

[Angie Neal]: Not if no one is making those connections. Not if no one’s making those connections to what they see on the screen, and also not if it’s not meaningful. So, let’s say you are teaching them basic vocabulary in Spanish, but then you’re not asking them to use the word “orange” in Spanish, even though you’re having them pick out orange outfits for the day, it’s going to be lost and it’s not going to be meaningful for the child.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay, so it’s all about conversation in whatever language you’re teaching. Okay, I think I’m–I think I’m getting this now. 

[Angie Neal]: It’s my theme song, I think.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: It’s our theme song. It’s all about social conversation. Okay. So, I’ve got that and now, I want to go to some really hard questions. See, these were the easy ones, but the hard question is like in, you know, in a lot of environments, as I said, they don’t have a lot of screens, they just have the phone. They may have a digital divide that we’re starting to close that. There may be a situation where books aren’t strewn across the floor, and where we’re not having abundant toys. What do we do? Like, what do we do? Is this a place where, you know, apps on my telephone are going to make all the difference in the world? Or, What–what’s your response to “not everybody looks like the beautiful charts”. Sarah, you look like you might have something to say about that.

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]:  I mean, there’s not a bad experience. Like, you don’t have to have a million books to have a really rich childhood. You don’t have to have every different version of the newest toy. I can think back, like, think about your grandparents, your relatives. They, like–my grandpa grew up on a farm with a dog, and had like one set of toys that was his and that was it. Because he had 17 brothers and sisters and that’s still a very rich way of growing up. And I think one thing I think about here, that has actually been talked about in another, “Ask the Experts” webinar from Children and Screens, is the idea of creativity. And you can do a lot with a cardboard box and what one thing that screens do is they remove the opportunity for that creativity, especially if they’re just a passive video. So, just giving an app that’s going to give you the answer and not let that creativity or that live problem solving happen isn’t necessarily a substitute. So, a cardboard box can be even more invigorating, interactive. Think about this multimodal. You could touch the box, can even eat it, and see what happens in a way that’s different than what you would do on a tablet. And so you don’t need a rich environment to have a rich development. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Well, I mean, part of what I think you’re suggesting is that every environment is a rich environment. And it’s just a matter of figuring out what we count as rich, you know? And I think that’s a very powerful message. You know, that one group might go into another home and and say, well, this looks really chaotic. But, you know, when you walk into my home that looks chaotic, to me, it’s actually just the way we live. So I don’t know, Angie, Rebecca, you want to chime in because I think this is a very big issue and a lot of people continue to talk about, you know, the language-gap models. So I kind of think we should address this.

[Angie Neal]: So, the very first thing that I was thinking, and I think Sarah had a beautiful answer, but the very first thing that I was thinking, similar to what Sarah said, is anything and everything can be a toy. And what did we do before 2010 when we had smartphones and iPads? We didn’t use iPhones and an iPad as toys. We took a pillow when we had Hot Wheels roll down it. So, anything and everything can be a toy, and we need to make sure we’re giving that time and opportunity without screens to be creative, to go outside and play hopscotch in the dirt, to do all of those things that we did before we had screens.

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: So, I agree with everything that’s been said. I’ll just add briefly, we’re talking about media here specifically, and you said, you know, if they just have, you know, one iPhone or one device or something, you know, if they don’t have a lot of other resources, how can they build on media to support some of these language, language and or high quality language interactions, right? So, if the kid watches a show on the TV or on the iPhone or on the phone, can you sort of take that and extend it to play afterwards? Right. So, let’s pretend now that you’re Daniel Tiger and you’re going to the hospital and let’s interact, act that out using media together. So, if there is only one, one device in the household, then you’re sort of by nature going to be more likely to use those, use those media opportunities to co-use media with your child, play those games and apps together, which build that language. And then you were saying, you know, you don’t have a million books. One thing we always were saying, you know, ten years ago about digital books and media, was it gives you this opportunity to have access to the entire library right in your pocket. There are, you know, public libraries. Your public library card can give you access to digital books and you can have access to a lot of children’s books, digitally to use with your child as well.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Yeah. So, if you don’t–if you don’t have access, you really do on your phone…just, I think you can tap into the whole world now, and that that’s that’s a huge advantage. And I think that’s really good. But of course, as we say, all this, you know, in our perfect world, we’re kind of, you know, seeming–okay, now it’s time for us all to sit down and watch the show together. And now it’s time, you know? But I don’t have any other kids. You’re the only kid I have, so it’s really easy for me to watch Sesame Street. But my problem is that, while my three year old might want to watch Sesame Street, my seven year old thinks that’s for babies. So, I’m not really sure what to do in my house because everybody’s kind of screaming about the one minute that I have for television before I have to do 10 million other things. So, help! What would you suggest I do? Different ages, what do I do?

[Angie Neal]: So, I think that’s where you have that trade off time. So maybe, while one child is watching Sesame Street and getting all the amazing things from Sesame Street, huge Sesame Street fan right here. Have the other one do a different activity. Maybe, they could be doing puzzles, or they could be doing some other kind of game. What else is there other than screens that existed before? Because as you talked about, everything has the potential to be a language rich environment as long as someone there is pulling and making those connections to everything that is in the environment.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: So again, I think what you’re helping me understand is that screens, we shouldn’t pull them out as separate things, that they’re kind of more like part of the natural environment every kid is growing up with. And we need to figure out some way to balance the screens with the other stuff. Is that what I’m hearing you say, Angie? 

[Angie Neal]: Absolutely. It is all about the balance, because we need to make sure that we are able to interact in the digital world. We literally live in a digital ecosystem. There’s nowhere you can go now where you don’t see screens. I go to the gas station, I turn the gas pump on, and a screen pops up. There are refrigerators that have screens on them. Those are not going to go away. So, instead of shoving it, we need to figure out how to live with it, and how to balance the time that we spend with screens with activities that are helpful for development. So, they’re not replacing those activities we should be doing because we’re wired a certain way for our interactions with other humans. We’re not necessarily wired to learn from devices. So, with that appreciation, we have to make sure we’re still engaging in those activities that are helpful. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay, okay. I’m really starting to see this. Sarah, you want to chime in? It looked like you might have, or Rebecca? 

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: I don’t have a whole lot more to add, other than like, you know, supplementing with conversation, and balancing it with some really rich opportunities.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay. Sounds good. So basically, screens are just one of the opportunities. The problem I have though, is that from what you all said, you know, you each shared some really exciting stuff here. You’re doing, and these apps and some of them, you know, Miss Rachel. I mean, why would I ever want to get off of it? So, how do I ever get to this? You’re talking balance. But frankly, my kids don’t want balance. They want screen time. Rebecca, you have kids. You must have seen this. Come on. 

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: Sure. Absolutely. So, I think when we’re talking to families about this sort of balance idea, I think it’s really helpful to think about what might be missing in children’s lives as opposed to, “Oh, screens are bad and screens are taking up too much time. So, minimize screens. Right?” But. so what is important, what is working well in your home? What’s not working well in your home? What do you think families–your children might be missing out on, right? So how is their sleep? How is their physical activity? How is their diet? How is their play? How is their creativity, right? So thinking about all these other activities is an important, you know, developmentally beneficial activities that children need to engage in to have healthy, well-rounded lives. And how can you know? We, as you know, practitioners or other support families in making sure that their children have all those experiences, not just a media experience. And media can, you know, play into that and sort of be the cake, as Angie mentioned, but it’s not the entire diet, right? And other things that are important as well, and sort of focusing on building up those other things as opposed to downplaying the media, I think might be a more palatable and effective approach for families.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: All right. So, I’m hearing a lot of things that are commonalities that all three of you are stressing. I want to make sure I get it right, and then I’m jumping to give you final thoughts for anything you would want to say. But the first thing I’m hearing everybody say is that humans are social beings, that–that’s who we are. And, and I think you said wired to be and I think that’s true. We are born with a social brain, and we thrive on social interaction. And language does, too. So, I think what I heard from all of you is, don’t compromise the social interaction. That is that whole idea of being a prompt, not a substitute for social interaction. I think I heard from all of you, keep the conversation going. And I think, Sarah, you were really on that point as well, that it’s critically important because if we compromise it, we really might lose out on language. I think I heard that language is a broad topic and that we can’t just look at screen time as one culprit, that there’s all sorts of other stuff they heard. There’s background noise, that comes in in certain families and a lot of other stuff going on–that’s competing all the time. So, we have to look also at those kids who use more screen time. Are there other things going on in the environment? I think some of you mentioned, that might have created the moment for more screen time. So, I think if we keep these in mind, and I think another biggie that all three of you stressed is put your phones down, put your phones down, put your phones down. So, if you can just designate a few hours that are just for your kids, you know? That would be awesome and all kids need that. I’ll even argue that even adults need it, when I’m–you know, sitting across from my kids, and they’re always on the phone over dinner. I’m wondering if they want to have a conversation with me at all. And little kids feel that even when they can’t articulate it. I’m also hearing that bilingualism is a really good thing, not a bad thing. So, I was happy to hear that. Happy to hear that, you know, or to recognize one thing they are learning two languages, it may take a little bit longer, but that’s okay. If you combine the two languages, they’re absolutely where they need to be. And I think as far as developmental delays, again, the balance of making sure you leave the time. Angie, thank you for that–to give your answers was a biggie. I’ll just add one point to your points, which is I know you get a lot of advice here, people. The most important thing is to trust yourself and to have fun as parents. Because parenting doesn’t mean you’re a CEO. It means you’re an engaged participant and one of the most magical mysteries of all time: watching your kid grow up and be able to have a conversation with you. So last thoughts. Let me go in reverse order here, and Angie, Sarah, and Rebecca, go! 

[Angie Neal]: All right. So, I’ll kick it off and say my key takeaways I hope you took from this is –conversation is the thing, the secret sauce. We get parents who come all the time. “How do I help my child be ready for school? Conversation. That’s the secret.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Okay.

[Angie Neal]: And also play. Play is that foundation for social interaction, as well as reading comprehension. So don’t forget those things. And then third and finally, it would be those opportunity costs, including use of technology at school. What is the technology replacing that we still need to learn in real life first?

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Oh, amen. So, no talking bananas. Sarah, you are on. Keep it real quick. We have literally a minute for both of you.

[Dr. Sarah Kucker]: Yeah. consider the broader context. Consider not just how much, but why, and when, and how the media is being used, and what it’s being used for. 

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: That’s perfect. And Rebecca, you get the final word here. So, go for it.

[Dr. Rebecca Dore]: Sure. So, I think like everyone has said, I think we’re really highlighting prioritizing high quality content, incorporating interactive media use, and then being realistic and empathetic for yourself and for families. Right? So responsive parenting that’s not burdened by guilt and stress around quote unquote screen time is likely to be much more important for healthy children and families, than sort of strict screen time limits alone.

[Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek]: Well done. And Kris, come on back, and take it away. 

[Kris Perry]: Thank you, Kathy and the entire panel for sharing these valuable insights about how digital media exposure affects the development of language and communication skills in young children. If you want to learn more about some of the early childhood topics discussed today, please check out the new Screen Deep podcast, including our first episode with Dr. Dimitri Christakis on attention and learning in early childhood. Save the date for our next, Ask the Experts webinar, Unreal: Online Misinformation, Deepfakes, and Youth on Tuesday, November 19th at 12 p.m. Eastern Time. If you found today’s webinar valuable, please consider making a donation to support “Ask the Experts” webinars. You can scan the QR code on the screen or visit our website at childrenandscreens.org.