Win-Win Parenting: Child Safety, Autonomy, and Family Harmony In the Digital Age

00:00:12 – Introductions by Executive Director of Children and Screens Kris Perry

00:01:55 – Moderator Elizabeth Milovidov on the challenges of parenting in the digital age and the importance of guiding and supporting children in their technology use.

00:07:52 – Sarah Coyne on different strategies for digital parenting, and what the research says about their effectiveness.

00:17:33 – Moderator follow-up: How can partners/spouses navigate differences in views about handling screen time and content for children?

00:19:35 – Catherine Page Jeffery on the ways in which negotiations around digital media create family conflict and how to navigate this.

00:29:53 – Moderator follow-up: How can parents and caregivers overcome feelings of discomfort related to discussing touchy issues related to technology (e.g., pornography) with their children?

00:34:43 – Adam Pletter on problematic use of digital media and when to seek clinical help.

00:44:15 – Moderator follow-up: How can we get children to focus more on building healthy life skills rather than just playing video games?

00:46:00 – Emily Cherkin on building intentional media use habits in families.

00:56:44 – The panel addresses questions from the audience.

00:57:10 – Q&A: How to support your children when you set boundaries on digital device use but their friends’ parents do not?

00:57:52 – Q&A: How can parents discuss this issue with other parents?

00:58:34 – Q&A: How can parents set limits without impeding on children’s social lives?

01:02:13 – Q&A: How to decide if media is good quality or problematic?

01:03:12 – Q&A: Suggestions for parents of teens who use digital media as their primary way to de-stress after school?

01:05:51 – Q&A: Recommendations for families with multiple children who need different media boundaries due to age or behavior, including neurodivergence?

01:10:31 – Q&A: Should children be allowed to have screens in the bedroom?

01:14:07 – Q&A: Strategies for helping younger children transition off of devices to a different activity?

01:15:41 – Q&A: How can we get children to think about online safety and responsible tech use?

01:18:34 – Q&A: How can parents talk about current issues with their children and empower them to engage in critical thinking?

01:24:34 – Wrap-up with Children and Screens’ Executive Director Kris Perry.

[Kris Perry]: Hello and welcome to today’s Ask the Experts webinar: Win-Win Parenting: Child Safety, Autonomy, and Family Harmony in the Digital Age. I am Kris Perry, Executive Director of Children and Screens: Institute of Digital Media and Child Development. Parenting in today’s rapidly changing digital world can often feel like an overwhelming challenge, with new technologies, platforms and trends emerging faster than ever. How can parents and caregivers effectively guide their children’s media use in a way that reduces conflict, fosters independence, and helps guard against the development of problematic media use? With the right strategies and a balanced and intentional approach to parenting, it is possible to achieve these goals. In today’s webinar, our panel of experts will share research-backed strategies and practical tips on how to promote child well-being, independence, and healthy digital media use while supporting connected family relationships. Now, I would like to introduce you to today’s moderator, Doctor Elizabeth Milovidov. Elizabeth  is the founder of DigitalParentingCoach.com, a resource for parents and caregivers. As a lawyer, law professor, and child online protection expert with more than 20 years of experience, she has advised government and child protection agencies, nonprofits and thinktanks on digital safety, parenting, and well-being. Currently, she is Senior Corporate Counsel supporting the Lego Group, and implementing and promoting digital child rights, safety, and well-being in digital gaming and metaverse experiences. Welcome, Elizabeth.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Thank you so much, Kris. I mean, it’s just going to be so much fun. Always a fun–fun to be here with you guys. So, shall I just take us off and get us started?

I guess I will. So, I am really excited to be the moderator today, because we have some fantastic experts who are here, to share real, practical information, insights, and strategies. But I really just want to pull you back for a second, because I want you all to remember, you know, what we’re seeing. We know that this is different, right? We–parenting is different today. But is it really? Technology is evolving at just lightning speed. And we know that it’s not just about screen time limits, but we’re talking about–we need to build habits that promote independence, critical thinking, and well-being. But the best news is you’ve got, Children and Screens Institute. You have experts like the ones on this panel, and you don’t have to be a tech expert in order to be a great digital parent. So we’re going to give you as many strategies as possible so that no matter what your approach is, your presence and your strategies will be able to help you really take care of this. So I think, just to lay out a tiny bit of the scene here, I think we all know that the digital landscape, it’s just, it’s a challenge, right? It–if we go on media, you’re seeing, you know, the news, you’re seeing misinformation, disinformation, deepfakes, I don’t know, new games, new apps. I mean, there’s so many things that are happening, you know, not to even mention, TikTok and trends and AI generated content, etc. So the whole thing is that there’s so much just looking for our children’s attention, trying to capture their attention, trying to hold their attention, trying to keep them scrolling, and in our families, mine as well, this could cause some conflict over screen time use, device use, reduced independence. We’re always trying to figure out ways to, you know, to help our children self-regulate, self-control. And of course, there’s also just that whole issue of problematic behaviors, which I’m so happy that we have true clinical psychologists here to tell you what is the real deal. But I think that’s what is so important and what I love about being here with Children and Screens Institute is that their approach is the same one that I have been advocating for years. And that is, instead of fighting against technology, we need to focus on how we can guide our children through it, right? So, we need to find some balance and some intentional parenting approaches. We need to, you know, let go of this whole idea of authoritarian, authoritative, you know, all these things I’m talking about. It’s not always about strict rules for complete, complete freedom. It’s about balance. It’s about intention. It’s about mindfulness. So, you know, we’re going to try to shift those conversations, instead of saying things like, “Put that down.” We’re going to say things like, “Well, what did you enjoy about that? You know what’s so cool about that? Show me. Let’s – let’s talk about it.” Talking about setting some digital boundaries that make sense. And of course, the big one in my house is teaching my own boys how to self-regulate. Teaching them to recognize themselves when they’re having tantrums or when something is going to affect their mood or their emotions, their focus, their behavior, their schoolwork. And I’m not going to say, “lead by example,” because I know that you are already thinking that–that you want to be good role models. And I know that that’s difficult, too. Which is why, again, the panelists are here to help you as a parent, and a caregiver, and perhaps you’re an educator, as well. Because it’s all of us that are around these children that are creating this community. So, we want to use technology to connect, of course. Not just be, you know, not just consume it, not just be consummators of technology, but we want to encourage our children to use it creatively, responsibly, to do problem solving, to look at real world engagement, and not just, you know, passive scrolling, which has its place. I’m not going to lie. So, before I get started and introduce you to our first panelists, I really just want to remind you too, if you have any questions, write them down, because these people are here for you and there will be a recording. So, be prepared to go on that website and check them all out. There are tons and tons of valuable resources for you, but you have to do the work. So, my final thought to you is this power of parenting with purpose. When we are parenting with intention, we are reducing those conflicts. Again, we are building that independence and we are creating a foundation for healthy, healthy digital habits. You are not alone in all of this. Like I said, you’ve got all these people to ask some questions, myself as well. And I really want you to realize, I know it sounds cliche, but the goal isn’t to be perfect, right? The goal is to be present. And I promise you, digital parents, digital caregivers, you have so got this. Okay? So, let me stop talking, and get ready to introduce you to our very first panelist. So this is going to be going fast here. So I want you to be ready. I have with me Dr. Sarah M. Coyne, who is a professor of human development in the School of Family Life at Brigham Young University. She received her BSc. degree in psychology from Utah State University and her Ph.D. in psychology from the University of Central Lancaster, in Preston, England, which is where I’m based right now. Not Preston, England, but London, England. Her research involves media aggression, gender and mental health, and one of my favorites, child development. Dr. Coyne has over 200 – yeah, I did not stutter – 200 publications on these and other topics and she regularly speaks to families, and teenagers about using media in positive ways. And get this, she knows what she’s talking about because she has five kids and she lives in Utah. So, Dr, Sarah, it is over to you.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: Okay. Thank you so much. Today we’re going to–I’m going to provide kind of an overview of the research and strategies around parenting for raising digital natives. So, these are kids that have grown up with media almost since they were born. So let’s just get right into it. So, I am very quickly going to go through four parental mediation strategies. We also call them parental monitoring strategies, right? These are the things that parents do to help, help their kids with media use and then also to monitor those. And this is where the bulk of the research has been. So the first one is called restrictive mediation. These are all of the rules and the regulations that you set as parents. It can also be set in schools. It can be set by the government. I was just in a hearing yesterday around banning cell phones in schools, right? That would fit into the restrictive mediation. So, this is, you know, limits on screen time. This is, no screens at the dinner table or driving or, you know, whatever those rules are that you guys have. The second one is active mediation. The intent of active mediation is to help your kids become critical consumers of media. And we do these through discussions, before they use media, during when they use media, after they use media, and so on. But it’s just really to get their minds thinking, right? It’s all those conversations you have–fits into this bucket. Then we have coviewing. Coviewing is when you’re using media with your child. So you’re watching television together, you’re playing video games, you’re watching YouTube short, you’re on social media together, right? All of that co-use. And then finally we have something called, “deference”. And deference has been researched by far the least. But I think it’s fascinating. So this is a proactive parenting strategy, where parents actively do nothing. And you’re like, what is that? They actively do nothing. And so they really let their kids take the reins on their media use. Usually this happens a little bit later on in development, where parents have used restrictive, active, and coviewing for many, many years, and they say, “You know what? At this point I really value your autonomy, I respect you, I trust you, and so I’m going to back off on some of these.” Alright? So, parental mediation works for the most part. Here are two meta-analyses that have taken together all of the research that has ever been done on parental mediation. So, it represents hundreds and hundreds of studies. So, for example, restrictive mediation tends to decrease media time and inappropriate content. And we know that active mediation and coviewing decreases media risk. So, kind of mitigate some of those negative effects. So like kids tend to be less aggressive, say after watching violent media or are less likely to engage in sexual activity or substance use, or have less problematic media or so on, right? So those are really great. However, other research shows that the effects are kind of small and sometimes can be counterintuitive. So, for example, we just did a nationally representative sample on parenting and media, and we found that restrictive mediation was actually related to worse adolescent mental health and body image, especially for older kids. Right? And so what we want to do next– because these effects are kind of small to moderate, and sometimes can backfire, I really want to talk about how kids can thrive on media with the recognition that it really can depend. And so I’m going to give you five C’s of media use. And these are just barely released from the American Academy of Pediatrics. And we’re going to apply them to the parental mediation strategies to give you kind of a more nuanced view of this whole thing, to help you–give you tools to help your child really, really succeed in this space. And we’ll go over each one in turn. Alright, the first one is, “child”. So, we know every child is different. So I’m a developmental psychologist and I’m very, very interested in individual differences. So I want you to think about your child, or the children that you work with, right? Who is your child? How do they react to media and what is their motivation for using it, right? What is your child’s personality? You might think, you know, “I have a kid that’s really, really good at self-regulation.” That might be a kid where you can use more deference. Or you might have a kid that’s really, really impulsive. They need a little bit more guidance. They’re going to respond a little bit better and need a little bit more rules and so on. And then what does your child value, and how does social media help or hurt those values? Helping them to identify those values, and really having those big conversations. As one example, I have a child who identifies as LGBTQ, and this particular child was on social media a little bit earlier than some of my older kids, because she needed that community, and she needed that space. She was getting bullied at school. We live in a really conservative community, and this was really important to her. So I had to be really flexible in terms of the rules and the ages that I thought were good. I was like, “hmmm this child is a little bit different. They have different needs.” That’s really important. Number two is “content”. So what kinds of interactions does your child have on social media or media in general? And I always–whenever I talk to teens I always ask them two questions. So what is positive, uplifting, and good about your social media use or any media use? Because we know it’s not just about screen time. I loved Elizabeth’s message to start us out, right? Screen time is actually very weakly related to negative outcomes. It’s all about these other things, okay? So, if I’m spending hours on social media, for example, and it’s all really positive and uplifting, and so on, it can have tremendously positive impacts. On the flip side, what is not so positive, uplifting, or good about social media, right? And those are the things we want to talk about and try to limit. Number three is “calm”. So a lot of research looks at the reasons why children use media. And we know that certain reasons tend to be related to better outcomes than other reasons. Now, using media to calm down has probably received some of the most attention here. And sometimes it can be effective. But for the most part, especially with young kids, it can kind of backfire and relates to problematic media use later on, especially if it’s the only tool that they have. It’s also really important to think about things like, how does your child get to sleep at night? We know that sleep is one of the best protective factors for mental health. And so, how do they dial down from the day? What is in their toolbox? What are their– in their strategies for calming down? Number four is “crowding out”. So again, instead of just always trying to take away the phones, reduce screen time, right? Kind of reframing, instead of just reducing screen time, what does your child want to get back, right? And then what are some effective parental mediation strategies that we talked about earlier that might be effective to reduce that crowding out? Can they do it on their own? Do they need parental help, and so on. And then what does your child want to change about tech in their life? Right? Asking those questions, being really, really curious. And then the last one, last “C” is “communication”. And this is–I mean active mediation, all about active mediation. But I want to give you just some ideas about how to ask these questions. So, number one asking over assuming. So, what is your view of TikTok, right? So, instead of being like, “Stop using TikTok,” “Why do you like it–what’s great about having Snapchat and what can get tricky? What do you wish I understood about your gaming?” Like let me in, be really curious. Empathy over eye-rolling, so must feel really stressful to feel pressure to keep your snap streak going. Like, “I don’t get it. I don’t understand why you need a Snapchat streak, but that seems important to you. Okay? Help me understand.” Complexity over commandment. So, you know, really diving into the complexities. So, if a friend asks for honest opinions on an anonymous app, should you respond honestly, even if it might hurt their feelings? In other words, which is more important? Honesty or kindness? And then normalize without minimizing. So instead of just saying, “Just get off Instagram,” right? “You know what? That social comparison? That happens to me too. It’s a real struggle with social media. It’s hard and can make you feel like you aren’t good enough, right?” So we’re talking about a different level of parenting in terms of media. And I want to end with this slide. Something I study is media guilt and media parental efficacy. So, this idea of most parents– the vast majority of parents think they’re not doing good enough. Most parents think–feel really guilty over their child’s screens and their own chat–and their own screen use and I just want to end with, we could do it, right? We can do this. We can have the conversations. We can use parental media strategies in effective ways. We can empower our kids to use their devices in ways that will help them to thrive, and not just survive, in this digital environment. And I think that that is my time. So, thank you.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yes. Yes it is. Thank you so much, Sarah. It was just really– I love it. I love the five C’s. I think that just based on the very end here, as you were talking about how they can do it. How could they do it? I think one of the things that I hear a lot from parents and caregivers is just about, you know, “What do I do when my partner, my spouse, they have different views, about, you know, how we handle screen time? So, and how do we, you know, look at more appropriate content? What I think is appropriate, what does someone else think is appropriate?” So, can you just share some tips and strategies there for us?

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: Yes. This is really, really important to think about in terms of a couple contexts, because we know that like if one parent is really lax on the rules and another is restrictive, like they’ll always go to the one that’s lax, and try to push the boundaries, and then that can cause conflict in the spousal relationship, right? And so what I would recommend there is that you guys work together, and it will take work to get on the same page, before you come to your children. So, you don’t want to be arguing over this when your kid is in the room, right? And so take some time, take some space, use all the communication skills that you know, to come to some sort of agreement and compromise that you can both agree with. So then you bring a united front to your children. And sometimes, right, if it’s really bad, it might need outside help. You might need to go see, you know, a mediator or a therapist or a friend or something to be like, we need to have a united front on this.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Great. Thank you so much. And I was asking for a friend.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: Yeah! I was answering for a friend. 

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Okay. So next I’m going to introduce Catherine to you. So, Dr. Catherine Page Jeffrey, she’s a lecturer and researcher in the discipline of media and communication at the University of Sydney. Ooh, I know it must be very late. Catherine’s current research addresses digital media and families, with a particular focus on my favorite theme: parenting in the digital age. Her research has been published in leading international journals, and prior to entering academia, Catherine worked in online content regulation and cyber safety education for the federal government. Over to you. Dr. Catherine.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for that introduction, right? So parenting in the digital world. So, look, you know, we’ve had a great introduction to this topic already. Sarah has so helpfully talked about the different mediation strategies, which is great because I’m going to be building on some of these. Some of my more recent research has looked at family conflict, and the ways in which negotiations around digital media create family conflict and what we might be able to do about this. Okay. So I’m going to take you through the main points that I’m going to be talking about in my eight minutes. At this point, media panics heighten parental anxiety about digital media. No surprises there. Parents then mediate their children’s digital media use in response to those concerns, but it’s not necessarily easy and they face several challenges in doing so. Parental mediation of the young people’s digital media use is a common source of parent-child conflict, which affects family cohesion and well-being. More democratic and communicative approaches to digital parenting are called for. And Sarah already touched on some of these with her C’s of communication. And look, I just want to state upfront that my perspective and my research has focused on adolescence. Parenting, digital parenting, of course, changes as young people get older, and parents typically engage in different mediation practices based on the age of their child. So much younger children are usually subjected to much more restrictive mediation. But as young people transition into adolescence, parents tend to change their mediation styles. So, the tips that I’m going to be giving focus more on parenting adolescents rather than young children. Okay, so media panics, moral panics – there’s a whole kind of theoretical framework around moral panics where we have this kind of collective anxiety about something in the mass media, kind of partially, kind of constructs this. And of course, the issue of young people and media has been an ongoing source of collective anxiety and a media panic for a very long time. So, you know, I’ve just got a few headlines from Australia. There have been panics around, you know, in the early days of the Internet around pornography and predators. Mobile phone use more recently, around screen time, screen addiction, gaming, what it’s doing to teen brains, to our language, cyberbullying, sexting, all sorts of things. Just got a screenshot there of Jonathan Haidt’s book around the anxious generation, you know, making these grand claims about how damaging media can be. And we do lose a lot of the nuance within this. It’s worth remembering that there is a very long history of media panics around young people’s use of media, even though a lot of these debates play out as though this is a new problem, the likes of which we haven’t seen before. So new media does have additional affordances, which we do need to grapple with. But we’ve had a lot of these same concerns all the way back to television. And before that, with tel– like landline telephones, comic books, movies and so on. Okay, so what do these media panics do? Well, it elicits parental anxiety. So, parents are concerned. So, my research has focused on parents’ anxieties about their children’s use of digital media. So parents, of course, want to do the right thing. They have the children’s best interests and well-being at the forefront of typically everything that they do. The parents do engage in these mediation strategies to try and minimize these risks that they’re so acutely aware of. But as Sarah has just talked about, digital media, of course, do present opportunities for children. So it’s not simply a matter of trying to restrict or ban. And this is increasingly difficult given how much we rely on digital technologies for school, for connection, for all sorts of things. So the challenges for families, of course, is navigating digital media use in a way that maximizes the benefits of digital media while minimizing the risks. But, not so easily done. So, negotiating digital media can–there’s quite a bit of research on this. It can create this kind of conflict. It can produce these qualitative changes in family functioning. Digital media can also reconfigure family relations and disrupt these hierarchies of expertise. What do we mean by that? Well, young people often have more expertise and knowledge about digital media than their parents. So, subverting this traditional relationship of parents being in this position of authority and the young person, you know, learning from their parents. This kind of shapes family dynamics in different ways. Parental attempts, particularly in relation to restrictive mediation – so, taking the device away or or banning certain activities or platforms – can elicit adolescent reactance. Adolescents are developing their own autonomy and privacy, and the online world is a very powerful space where they can enact their autonomy. So, that thing will create family conflict, particularly when parents try to engage in these restrictive mediation practices. So, what’s the answer here? And again, just to remind you that I’m talking about older children and adolescents. And I suggest that we need more kind of democratic approaches to parenting in the digital age. But, enabling forms of mediation – which I should also note is usually used interchangeably with active mediation, which Sarah has already talked about – which involves talking things over with young people. And importantly, I suggest that actually involving children in decisions which affect them, is more likely to succeed in terms of encouraging parent-child dialogue. So, it’s about that communication that Sarah has already touched on. So, key takeaways here. Remember that media is important to your children and offers many benefits. It is easy to forget about those benefits when often all we hear about are the potential risks, the potential harms, and so much is written about the dangers of media. Remember that there are many benefits as well. Show an interest in your child’s media use, ask questions. So, just confirming again what Sarah just said about communication. A lot of parents, you know, that I have talked to as part of my research have said, “Ah, you know, it’s with my older child, it’s too hard to mediate the children that they use any longer. I just rely on trust and dialogue. It’s really the only thing that works.” However, when parents actually kind of talk about what they mean by trust and dialogue, it became quite apparent that parents aren’t really engaging in a dialogue. It’s more of a lecture. It’s more risk talk. It’s more parents conveying the key messages about online safety. And it’s not really about asking questions or finding out what their children like doing online. And I think that’s a problem. So, also, you might want to consider a family tech agreement as a way of establishing some of the ground rules around use, and you work that out with your child. And importantly, that might also put some responsibility onto parents themselves. So it’s not all this top down, authoritarian style of parenting, “You will do this.” Because, we found that those kinds of approaches would usually result in either conflict or young people going and doing things behind their parent’s back. But if you establish rules around use. So for example, “No devices at the dinner table,” that should apply to parents as well. And you know, if a young child– if a young adolescent says, “Okay, look, I agree not to do this, but I’d like you to not be on your phone when you’re watching my soccer match at the weekend.” Okay? So there it should be, that kind of mutual agreement and negotiation there. What you want to do is create the conditions in your relationship where your child will come to you with problems rather than hiding it. So, if you start those conversations early, then hopefully your child will come to you if and when they encounter anything challenging online. This is a little plug for my book, forthcoming in March, where I talk about all of this and sort of talking about going beyond media panics towards a new theory of parental mediation, which is more democratic and based on parent-child dialogue.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Thank you so much, Catherine.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Thank you.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yes, absolutely love it. I’m just feeling what you’re saying, especially about the soccer match and parents being scrolling, etc. I don’t do that. But, I think that parents are also a little bit concerned about, you know, the s-e-x topic. And one of the things you had mentioned was, you know, this disrupting the expertise and about more knowledge. And when we’re talking about relationships, it’s clear that our children and young people don’t have more knowledge about these things. They may have a little bit more knowledge about technology, but you know, how is it that parents can – and caregivers – can sort of overcome this discomfort about speaking about these touchy relationship issues with their children throughout their development? 

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Yeah. I mean, it’s a really good question. I’ve actually just written a paper about pornography, because I know that that is a main concern of parents. Parents that I’ve talked to have said, “I’ve not talked about this with my child because to be honest, I don’t think they’re even thinking about that yet.” And, you know, like you know, might be a parent of a 14 year old boy. It’s like, “I don’t even think he’s like looking at porn or thinking about sex.” And I think I well–look, we probably, most probably see – young people are increasingly using pornography at an earlier age, right?

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: And they’re also seeing it. They can see it by accident, too. I think parents don’t care about that. They can think that their children are out, you know, looking for this. And it’s like they can see it by accident.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Well, it’s often the case that young people send each other this kind of stuff.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: There’s that, too. Right.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: So, a lot of – you do need to talk to young people about it. And I think, in terms of getting over the discomfort, the earlier you start, then it never – it’s never really an issue. If sex and pornography and all of those things is talked about very early, it’s never really – it’s never really awkward. It’s only awkward if, you know, you kind of leave it and then your child gets to a certain age and you feel like you have to have “that” talk. Like, you know, you have that talk kind of once, and then you just say, “Phew. I’ve dealt with it.” This is just – not it’s not the case at all. You need to talk about it really, really early. But also what we advocate for in this paper is, again, not just engaging in the risk talk. You know, parents often say, “Pornography is bad. You’ll probably see it. But, you know, you should not go out and look for it and it’s not real.” You know, they reproduce the risk talk around it. That’s kind of problematic, actually. In fact, that’s almost as problematic as, you know, sort of, in some ways young people being exposed to porn – that kind of risk talk – because it creates shame. So then young people who are often developing, their kind of, you know, they’re going through their own sexual development and might be exploring their sexual identity. Many will often seek out porn as part of that process. When they are told by so many people, “Porn is misogynistic. Porn is not real. Porn is bad.” Then what you have is young people, and often young men or adolescent boys, saying – getting this guilt and shame around accessing pornography. And they say, “I look at porn, but I don’t hate women. You know, I promise.” So that risk talk around pornography is a real problem. Because also, young people – 15-, 16-, 17-year-olds might seek it out as part of their own pleasure and sexual development – if they’re always told, “That’s bad. That’s shameful.” That’s a problem as well. Yeah. So, we do very much need to change the conversation around pornography as being bad, “Don’t look at it.” Because that is creating shame. But again, starting those conversations early, and not just having the talk once – it needs to be an ongoing thing.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Great. Thank you so much. Catherine. Yes. No, I really hear you about, you know, having these continued conversations. And I think that it’s also just about talking about relationships. So that way you already have this sort of communication with your children about these topics. But thank you. I’m going to head over to Dr. Adam Pletter, who is a friend of mine as well, licensed clinical psychologist and digital parenting expert. We’ve done a couple things together. He received his doctorate degree from the George Washington University and specializes in treating children, adolescents, and young adults in his Bethesda, Maryland, office. I think I’m saying it, like, with a California accent. So sorry. Dr. Pletter consults with parents and technology companies to balance the many benefits of the digital world with healthy child development and mental health. He has also created the iParent 101 curriculum, which includes webinars, keynote speaking events, free online tutorials, and an e-book. All of this with the goal to empower parents with tools to navigate the complexities of raising children in a digital world. Over to you, Adam.

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: Thank you so much for inviting me. And pleasure seeing you again, Elizabeth. I’m going to jump in and for my time here, I’m really going to try to help talk through this nuanced question of how much of our families’ – parents and children – digital use, screen use, screen time – I know that’s a lot of things, but we lump it together – is a problem or just part of our modern life? It’s a huge question in my family and in my clinical practice every day, every hour of my day. That is a huge question. Usually, if you’re in my office, someone already has determined that there’s some level of clinical concern. And that’s what I’m going to try to help us understand today – that line. So, I’m going to start with, sort of, this question, or statement, of critical machines and technologies that’s critical to our modern life that are indispensable–offer both remarkable advantages and significant risks. All types of different machines. So, let’s start with something very basic, and that is driving a car. It’s a huge machine. There’s risk. There’s danger. If you’re a parent of a teenager who has taught someone to drive a car, you know that level of parental anxiety sitting in the passenger seat? I’ve done it twice now. Level of worry, level of risk is there for sure. And the piece that I encourage you to think about is if you’re ever driving and looking for parking, or driving in bad weather, there’s this phenomenon that if you lower the volume of your radio, if you’re listening to music or a podcast – Screen Deep is a great podcast, by the way – lowering the volume helps you see better. It helps you see the bad weather of the road. It helps us see better because there’s less stimulation coming at us, which the way our brains work, we can only focus on one thing, technically, at a time. So we’re shifting our attention constantly back and forth. That’s how the human brain is designed, no matter the age. As we practice more, as we get older, we get better at shifting our attention. That’s an executive function, which we could talk about later. But this–it was a meme that came through as I was putting this presentation together, and it just kind of made me laugh that lowering the volume makes us see better. But it made me think that it’s actually relevant here in the sense that the amount of stimulation coming at us does impact and interfere with our ability to think, and that is the end road to this basic concept of being able to turn the volume down. Again, this is a nuanced approach. I’m glad other people have used that word already. It’s not all or nothing. This is a nuanced understanding of where that clinical line is. So, speaking of screens and phones, this was my first phone. I would just like to include that. Today’s devices, again, just to state the obvious, are all-in-one devices, and they have tremendous, major life enhancements that we cannot skip over. The efficiency of this technology enhances the flow of information and communication, and provides greater stimulation, which pulls us in. And, when there’s so many things – look around that screen – coming at us, there is the potential for that trade off, that compromise of cognitive overload. So, it does require a nuanced approach. And when things are nuanced, as humans, it makes us – especially as parents, but our kids too – it makes us uneasy. We like all-or-nothing thinking. It’s– it makes us feel better. It’s simpler. It’s either this or it’s that. And it’s– in our increasingly polarized world, is it a coincidence that with all of this information – sharing good information, bad information, fake information, fake news, whatever – that it makes us anxious and uneasy as parents, for sure. And we want to rely on this all-or-nothing thinking. And so the question really comes down to the level of clinical interference. So I offer you from my clinical office these three markers of looking at the – in terms of your concerns – looking at the frequency of the concerns, the intensity of the concerns, and the duration and how long they last. And I’m going to talk more about that as we go. So, in general, thinking of those three markers, frequency, intensity, and duration of the symptoms, ask yourself about your kids. Again, you’re raising a future adult. Sorry to state the obvious, but I work with teens and adolescents, and I state the obvious a lot. We are raising future adults, and our reference point is very different than theirs. 2005 was when YouTube was released, just for the record. My daughter, who’s now almost 21, was born in 2004. She doesn’t know a world without YouTube. So, ask yourself, are they physically healthy? Are they sleeping enough? Developing appropriate connections online and off? They both count. Appropriately engage in schools, engaged in having fun, learning digital skills. All of this around engaging with their world as they’re learning and practicing to be the future adults they need to be. So, my approach in my office, and certainly what I have lots of free resources on my website about, is this curriculum leaning in on doing things with more intention to increase the dialogue and boundary setting. You heard a lot about those C’s earlier. And the research, all of this sort of without even knowing it at the time, because I created this probably 10, 15 years ago. I think you’re going to see a lot of those C’s in here. So begin as young as possible, even with clip art, start to have some basic – you can call it restrictive if you want – but evolving, we’re not just holding them back and saying you’re not allowed to do these things. Hold on, and set clear boundaries, and rules, have basic ideas. I recommend healthychildren.org as a way of creating a collaborative media plan. Have some understanding of the devices that they’re using, and attempt – because they don’t always work, often they don’t – to have some basic parental controls set up even if they don’t work, you could then help them by saying, “Hey, I thought I set a time limit or an app limit. Whatever, doesn’t seem to be working. Oh, it’s not working again, because it often doesn’t.” And you could have that dialogue around how, you know, the screen time controls, or whatever, it doesn’t work. You could also have different choices before jumping to the iPhone or the latest and greatest, having other versions: dumb phones, watches, tablets. There’s a tremendous market out there with really well-intentioned companies coming up with some good options. And attend to the positive behaviors, just give and take back and forth in the collaborative conversation, so you could offer more guidance and access as they get older and they’re demonstrating safe and appropriate behaviors. So, just very quickly here, in terms of a case study, this one is. You could see, he’s impacted, but it’s not clinically interfering. Let me just take one more minute here. I include these lists, which we could go back to in the Q&A, but it’s really about the clinical significance of the impairment. Looking at those three markers getting in their way of their lives and their development. This child at age 16 is in fact, impacted. Sorry – is impacted. You could see she’s up throughout the– there’s sleep deprivation. She’s failing her classes. There’s a significant impact that would raise any concern, parents’ concern. So, again it’s sometimes, there’s questions of chicken and the egg. I’m almost done. But all of these things that digital stimulation impacts: attention, anxiety, mood, and social functioning. And you want to be able to, look at the level of significant interference in their lives. Often when there’s an addiction or clinical concern, there’s deception, there’s withdrawal, there’s tolerance. It’s–it’s evolved in a negative spiraling direction, that obviously is concerning. And so it comes back to this compromise of the trade off. And so I encourage us to lean in on the biology. We are animals, we’re social animals. Use the five senses, how we’re taking in information. All five senses, including smell and taste, and all of them to help us reset. And breathing and getting up and moving around–is really key.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Perfect. I’m going to jump in right there and ask you to answer in just like 30 seconds, how is it then that we can get kids to focus? You know, just because based on everything you talked about – the level of disruption and all these things – how can we get our child to focus more on these healthy life skills rather than just video games – playing video games? It’s a 30-second answer, Adam. 

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: Yep. So the 30-second answer is: depending on the kid’s age, just like someone said earlier, it depends. I would have ways of forcing that dialogue. I use Wi-Fi routers all the time. If gaming is the main thing that pulls them in, having the Xbox paused, where the child or teenager has to come to you and very quickly say, “Hey, Dad. Mom. I want to play. I’m gonna get on a game.” You can have a brief 30 – 10 seconds – conversation of what you’re doing, who you’re playing with, and you take out your phone, and you hit unpause, and they’re rolling. But it forces them to slow down and regulate and have this dialogue.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Okay, so I’ve heard that regulation is our key term there. Thank you, Adam. I’m going to come back to that in the follow up, because I’m sure we’re going to have some more there. Let me introduce now, our last panelist, Emily. And Emily, I’m going to just say it so quickly so I can give you more time here. Emily, is the Screen Time Consultant, former middle school English teacher, and parent of two. She consults with parents, and she offers school presentations and professional development training. And she writes about her tech-intentional approach to parenting education and screen time. She’s also a guest lecturer at the University of Washington School of Public Policy, and her work has been featured in numerous outlets, including The New York Times, NPR, Today Show, BBC, and more. And she is also the co-founder of the Student Data Privacy Project, a group dedicated to protecting children’s data and privacy in schools. And I think I got us some more time. Over to you, Emily.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: Thank you. Thank you. I am going to talk a little bit more about the parenting side of things, because this is my wheelhouse as a parent and a former teacher. I always start my talks by talking about what I think is an extremely important place to begin, which is to replace judgment with curiosity. I always joke that parenting is the judgiest sport I’ve ever played. Starts from day one. There is nothing more fraught in today’s modern world than judgment around screen time. So, I invite us all to start here by replacing judgment with curiosity. Rather than judging ourselves or other people, what is it that’s causing me to feel this way? Why is it that my children might be interested in this? All of that. For me, we’ve been hearing the word intentional a lot. This is actually a phrase I came up with about six years ago and trademarked, coincidentally. That worked out well. But I define being tech-intentional as using tech in a way that enhances, nurtures, and supports ourselves, our children, and a family – and our families in a way that aligns with our values, while also resisting, delaying, and limiting screen use that interferes with healthy mental, physical, cognitive, and emotional development. Which is a really big definition. And so, I’ve provided you a nice TL;DR, which means too long, don’t read, or didn’t read. And it’s this. To me, these are the absolute three most important parts of tech-intentional parenting: less is more, later is better, and relationships and skills before screens. I want to talk very briefly about what I see as a very pervasive problem right now. We talk about screen time a lot. In my view, and in my experience, both as a parent, and a teacher, and an advocate, is looking at this as a two-part challenge. We have the – at least two parts. But the two big parts are children’s personal device use – so, smartwatches, smartphones, social media, gaming, all of the ways in which they engage with technology. But then there is the additional second elephant in the room here, which is the school issued technology – like one-on-one laptops and iPads. So, I hear from parents all the time who have rules, they have limits, they have conversations, they do everything at home, and the school sends home a Chromebook. I had a parent the other day tell me that her child had never even been on YouTube until the school computer came home. So, I want to acknowledge this because I think this complicates things significantly. The other thing I really want to highlight here is that there are many issues to be aware of regarding children and screens, but we first have to acknowledge that the business model of Big Tech is extractive, it is manipulative, and it is fundamentally out of alignment with child development. And I stress this because I think the most well-intentioned of us might be approaching this topic with strategies and ideas about how to deal with this existing situation, but I think we have to remember that the business model itself relies on our use of the product. And so, for children in particular, you’ve heard briefly about brain development and executive function. Children’s brains are more vulnerable than adult brains, and so they are much more susceptible when we are – when they are engaging with screens and digital tech. What is happening is their neural pathways are being stimulated in a very, very convincing, compelling way. So, what I always say to parents, it is not “you versus your child”, it is “you versus a hijacked neural pathway”. I also, as many of my colleagues here today have said, I want to stress that you’re not alone in feeling this way. This is very much a modern day challenge for parents. No other generation has really had to parent in this era. And so they’re – we’re all in agreement on that. I get asked two questions the most, and I’m going to very briefly talk about these and tell you which questions I would rather you think about instead, because I think they’re more helpful. So, the first is obviously, “How much screen time is too much?” The answer to this is not all screen time is the same. Scrolling through TikTok is very different of an experience for your brain, and your heart, and your mind, than FaceTiming with grandma. And so, if we were to just give you a simple number, that’s not going to necessarily give you very useful information. Also, you can have more than one child in the same family. They could spend the same amount of time doing the exact same thing, and they will have completely different reactions to it. So, when we limit ourselves to just a total number, it’s problematic. What I say to parents is, “A little bit’s okay, and a lot’s too much. And it really depends on the kid, the context, the time, the what else is happening, and all of that.” The other question I get asked all the time is, “What parental controls should I use?” I’m just going to say one of my biggest concerns about parental controls is they don’t work. If they did, I wouldn’t get asked this question all the time. They may provide some semblance of surveillance and control and supervision, but unfortunately, I hear all the time from parents whose kids have found the workarounds. They also cannot monitor in-app content, which is usually one of parent’s biggest concerns. And the other problem is it uses technology to solve a problem that technology created. And again, if we go back to the extractive business model, that’s problematic. So, there are two questions I would invite parents to think about instead. Number one, “Do you know what your child was doing online?” And I know you’re thinking, but you just told me not to use parental controls. Well, because I believe what’s going to happen in order to have this information, you have to have conversations, as several of my colleagues have already highlighted today. And those conversations are going to be fruitful and meaningful when you have a strong relationship with your child. And actually these are both sort of bidirectional. You know, you have to have a good relationship to know what your child’s doing online. And in order to know what your child is doing online, you need a good relationship. And in my view, this is going to happen through lots of what I call, sort of, “drive-by parenting moments”, lots of continued conversation. So, I want to highlight three habits of tech-intentional families. My favorite to provide is this one called, “Living Your Life Out Loud.” This just means narrating what you do as you do it, any time it comes to digital technology. So, “I’m reaching for my phone. I’m checking the weather. I want to see what time soccer practice starts. I’m going to look and see if it’s bad traffic. Oh, I just got a text from your friend’s mom.” It’s literally nonstop play-by-play. It – you know you’re – “it is working when your child starts rolling their eyes,” is what I like to say. And please note that this is advice for parents first. I really think parents have to start this before they can have their children do it, but the idea is to get the whole family involved in this because it brings awareness. It can increase our executive function. How we use this as a tool versus a toy. It can talk – we can talk about our emotional experience and interactions with it as well. But this is my favorite tip to give. It’s free. You can start it today. And it takes practice. And you’ll start to notice how many people don’t do it when you start doing it. Along those lines, this is one of the most powerful sentences that I was ever taught. There is so much that we don’t know about parenting in the digital age that we’re learning on the go, that this can be a very disarming phrase. We can say to our kids, “Oh my gosh, I forgot to teach you that when we go to a restaurant, it’s really rude to look at phones, and so we’re going to all put them away.” Or, “I forgot to teach you that when we visit our grandparents, they’re really wanting to spend time with you, so we’re not going to have our devices out. That goes for all of us.” We can put ourselves into this category, model what we want to see. And this phrase allows us to make this less about “us versus our child”, and more of that “side-to-side parenting” versus “the head-to-head.” I want to talk briefly about something that I hear all the time. Parents will say, “I need my child to have a phone or a watch to be safe.” I really want to emphasize that there is a big difference between what is scary and what is dangerous. I use the two images here in my talks to talk about the fact that even though sharks are scary and frightening, they’re extremely rare in terms of dying in a shark attack. In fact, our statistical chances of that is 1 in 4,000,000. But we also don’t think about our bathtubs as dangerous and scary. And yet, our risk of dying in a bathtub is 1 in 10,000. And, you know, I always joke, we don’t have bathtub week on TV, and we don’t hear about, you know, terrible bathtub deaths in the news all the time. And part of that is because of our own 24/7 consumption of news media, because we’re constantly tethered to our devices, our experience of what is scary versus dangerous is really distorted. On that note, Pew Research found last year that the top three parental fears in the United States are youth mental health, bullying, and kidnapping. And as Sesame Street used to say, “One of these things is not like the other.” Statistically speaking, kidnapping is almost nil. It is so, so, so rare. In fact, somebody did the math. If you wanted your child to be kidnapped – of course no one does – you would have to stand outside – have your child stand outside every day for 750,000 years to be guaranteed of being kidnaped, and that is not a reality. Now, the problem is when parents say, “I’m giving my child a watch or phone to keep them from being kidnapped, to keep them safe.” What happens? We increase number one and number two. We make youth mental health, we increase cyberbullying risk by providing an internet connected device. So, what I invite parents to do is think about what is the scary and what is the dangerous here. Kidnapping might be scary, it is not statistically dangerous. Mental health declines are very real. Bullying is very real. But, we do not have a kidnapping crisis in this country. We do have a mental health crisis in this country. I also want to end by saying that this is extremely important in terms of brain development, in terms of learning, in terms of building skills that will matter for future adulthood. Children are not small adults. Their brains are very different. And that friction is something that technology claims to help us with that makes our lives easier and more convenient. And I would like to push back and say that friction is fundamentally a good thing. It is in moments of friction that learning happens. Learning is through struggle. It is through making connections. Knowledge is not the same thing as information. Yes, we can get lots of information from tools. We do not always get knowledge from that. Another parenting strategy that has worked for my family is to share a phone and save a tween. I have been sharing my phone with my 13-year-old now, for a year and a half. Is it perfect? No. Is it frustrating? Yes. Is it exciting and insightful? Always. And so I’ve written a bit about that on my blog, which you can look up for essays on that. Finally, I just want to remind people that later is better. Less is more. Relationships and skills have to come before screens. This is a fight worth having. And if you want to learn more, I wrote a book, I do free webinars, and I didn’t have a whole lot of time to talk about the edtech piece, but that is something I do a lot of work on. And I have an unplugged edtech toolkit for free on my website for parents who want to push back on some of that school tech. So, yeah.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Thank you so much, Emily. Yeah, I sped you up, and you just delivered. And in fact, you delivered so much you answered a couple of the questions that I was going to answer – ask you. So, I’m just going to transition us into the group Q&A. So, let’s go, let’s go, and let me see. Where shall I start? Where shall I start? And please, all of you just, you know, kind of lean in if you want to answer something that you feel is just really for you. So, here we go. What are the best ways to support your children when you put in boundaries on a digital device use but their friends’ parents – dun, dun, dun, dun – do not? Anybody want to jump in on that one?

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: I will. 

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yeah, go for it, Emily.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: You can only control what goes on in your own house. And the most important thing you can do is have ongoing conversations about what is in alignment with your family’s values and having your kids come to you. That’s – I think it was Adam who said that – you know, the most important thing is to have them come to you when, not if, they see something that makes them uncomfortable. So starting in your home – own home.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yep. I would completely and totally agree. Next question. I feel like a game show host. How can parents best discuss this issue with other parents?

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: I really liked – I think it was Emily’s point – of the non-judgmental. And so, I don’t think that people struggle to talk about this issue with other parents. I think that it comes up all the time. So, I think just normalizing that, “Hey, this is frustrating for all of us. Like, we’re all in this together.” And then just really supportive, right? Supporting and validating. Just to help increase that parental media efficacy, I think is great.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Perfect. Thank you. And if anybody else would feel like they’re burning to just add in, please feel free. I think another question that I kind of picked up throughout everybody’s talk is just this idea of, you know, we all want to set limits – especially on social media or even gaming. But how can we do this without impeding on your child’s social life? Because they’re, you know, gaming, they’re chatting, they’re connecting on social media, they’re also with their friends. So, what do you have for us? How can we set limits?

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: I’ll jump in and say, I would focus on where the child’s pain point is. There’s something that is bothering them, too, as the parent is lecturing or setting limits or restricting or worried. And sort of this mutual, back-and-forth of annoying each other as the parent lectures, and the child is just trying to be a kid and do what everyone else is doing. I would try to lean in on two questions. One is, “What is actually bothering the kid? What does the kid want to do that they’re not able to do?” And second, “What is the kid himself or herself or themselves struggling with? What are they still improving on?” And if you know, if the kid is old enough and motivated to make changes and get more access, is there something that they could then communicate to their parent that they are acknowledging with intention, with awareness that they are struggling with. And they – then there could be a collaborative approach to that topic.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Right. And Sarah, I know you want to add.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: I just wanted to jump on with that. So, something that I really love about this particular question. And a strategy that I try to use with my own kids – so, four of the five have smartphones – is to help them set their own limits. And, I learned this – so my first one, I was like, really heavy-handed. And we had, like, all the filters and all the limits and all the things, and it, like, backfired. It didn’t go well. And so something that I really talk about with my younger kids is that, you know, they set the limits. Let’s say, “Hey, how long do you want to spend on Snapchat?” And so then they set it up in their own phone, and then they get the things. And then it’s like an ongoing conversation. And I feel like that has been at least more effective in our family than, like, me being more heavy-handed.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yeah, yeah, I agree, I love that idea about setting things together. I do the same thing with my own children, asking them, you know, “What do you think? And if you want to have chat open, do you think you need to? Do you have to talk with your friends?” You know, and just kind of going through all of the parental control features with them and saying, “What do you really need?” And I would say eight times out of ten they pull the things out. They’re like, “Oh yeah, you’re right. I don’t need that. I just want to play the game.” Or, “I just want to, you know, you know, socialize. I don’t need to necessarily see where everybody is on the map.” So, all that kind of good stuff. Go, go. Emily, please.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: I’m just going to say, too. First of all, it’s okay to have children who don’t use social media, don’t have phones. There is a growing movement of young people who are opting out or choosing not to participate. I also think it’s really important to keep in mind that if the FOMO is bad without it, wait till they get it. Because it is normal to be a middle school student, for example, and feel left out – to feel like your friends are doing things without you. So, another option is to be, you know, make your home the one that people want to come and be in. Provide non-screen-based activities for your family– your children and their friends. And acknowledge that it may just be a bummer of a situation, and that’s part of life. I think that part of what kids need is to know that it is okay to be different from their friends, and not just do something because everyone else is doing it.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Oh, but Emily, you’re preaching to the choir. I’m sure everyone here is just like, “Yes, of course.” But the parents are, “Yikes.” You know, it’s- that’s a hard one. It really is a hard one. But, there’s these tips and strategies. They’re out there. Parents, let’s go. There is- one of the questions is, how does one decide the quality of media – and we’re talking about games – given that some games may be educational. And I was going to jump in myself, because I found a great resource recently, called Family Gaming Database by Andy Robertson. He’s a BBC technology reporter here– over here in the UK. And he has created this – so if you have your child who’s asking for, oh, let’s say Call of Duty – or something else that is inappropriate for their age – you can go on this gaming database and find an alternative that is at the right age and something that you can explain. And he’s done a really nifty job of going in and telling you what is for digital well-being, what is for creativity, how to empower them. And I also think, obviously, one of my favorites is Common Sense Media, which I’ve seen and all of you have been referencing. And so, it’s just really exciting. And I’m also going to say, I’m on the Common Sense Media UK Advisory, and I have an event afterwards. So, I’m just glad that we are speeding through here, you guys. So our question, and for you, not for me, is what do you suggest for parents of teens who use digital media as their primary way to – oh, wait for it – de-stress after school? Adam, I’m going to start with you just because I know that you have lots of patients.

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: I would acknowledge that the most popular coping strategy on the planet is avoidance. We as animals avoid things just like other animals that make us uncomfortable, that give us some level of distress or pain. And I would acknowledge that. And chances are, if you were to say that to your teenager, they would probably nod along. And so then it becomes that line, as I talked about earlier, not necessarily a clinical line, but the line of concern of are they escaping? Are they distracting themselves away from other things that are priorities? And as we’ve talked about – a couple of people said the term executive functioning – that’s a developmental thing over the course of 25 to 30 years old, and prioritizing – the ability to prioritize – is literally an executive functioning that develops over those 25 or so years. So, these phones and social media dialogue connections literally hijack and disrupt our abilities as humans to prioritize. And so, I wouldn’t say all that to your teen, but I would try to get them to think about how are they prioritizing, knowing that escaping is going to be part of the pull.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: One-hundred percent. Sarah, please.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: Yeah. Just to add to that, I think it’s incredibly normal. So, I would validate and normalize. I mean, my favorite way to de-stress is to watch Bridgerton after a long day at work, right?

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: I knew I liked you, Sarah? I knew it.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: We can be friends. We can be friends. I do a lot of research with younger kids. And so, I’m going to answer a little bit of that, because I think we build this, and it will pay off dividends later in the teenage years. But I really, really like John Gottman’s Emotion Coaching. And so that’s all about like, “How do I deal with difficult emotions? How do I deal with stress? How do I deal with anger?” Right. And it’s about labeling the emotion, validating it, and then – kind of what Adam was talking about – you know, what is in your toolbox for dealing with that emotion or dealing with that stress and so on. Media can be one. Probably shouldn’t be the only one. And so we want to start this at age like, you know, two, and then it’ll hopefully pay off dividends later on.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Great. Thank you. Absolutely loved it. So a question now, perhaps a Catherine or Emily, if you– if you like this one, let me know. What do you recommend for families who have multiple children that might need different media boundaries due to age or behavior? And, you know, I’m going to add something else on that, not just multiple children, but let’s also add in neurodivergent children. Just because I know that I see this a lot, and I want to make sure that we talk about it.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: It’s a really good question. I like this question because it does acknowledge that there is not a one size fits all approach. And I think we just really need to keep that in mind. And we’re getting a lot of questions – I’m just having a look at some of the questions that kept coming through on in the chat about what is the right age for this? And, you know, how do I know when, you know? And I think the answer is, you know, it does. It depends on your child, and it can’t necessarily just be done by a blanket thing like age either. All these sixteens, you know. Therefore, you know, that there are, you know. It’s like in Australia, we’ve just had this social media ban announced, you know, for under 16s. And as I’ve said, “You know, what’s magic about the age 16? Well, of course, you know, nothing.” You know, that’s a whole other topic. Yeah. So, it is about acknowledging the differences in your child, and particularly young people that are neurodivergent. And I don’t– but I don’t have expertise to talk on that, so I’m not going to. I’m going to let someone else, you know, talk about that. I think it does definitely add to the parenting challenge. Because trying to tailor different approaches to the needs of young people does increase the parenting burden. But I think having, you know, I talked about a tech agreement and that kind of negotiation. I think sitting down and doing that with each child in a conversation about how you might approach some of the different rules for each child is a good place to start. And I know it’s probably difficult to enforce, but having those different conversations with the different young person based on their personality, their age, talking about why–

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Well, let me interrupt you there, Catherine. Let me interrupt, because I just want to twist it a little bit. So imagine that you’re sitting there and you’ve got your two children – I’m going to take different ages – one is five, one is 11. This is, I think, the big struggle. So what? What can parents do then? How are they going to handle these different media boundaries?

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Look, I think you probably have those conversations separately rather than together. And I think also the difference between a five year old and 11 year old is – and look, I wouldn’t necessarily advocate doing a tech agreement with a five year old. You know, at that kind of age, that is very young. I think that parents are still very much, probably have a lot more control. They don’t have their own devices. Certainly you can start having the kinds of conversations with a five year old – an age appropriate conversation about the internet, about technology, about content that they might see on screen. They had different conversations, and they are going to be different approaches. So something with a five year old, as I said, I don’t think that’s going to be so much of a nego– you know, a negotiation.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: I’m looking at Adam to see if he– if he’s going to say how many five year olds or six year olds he sees. But, well, he hasn’t chimed in so I think we’re okay, Catherine. Emily, I just want to point to you because you looked like you wanted to jump in.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: Yeah. I was just going to add, I mean, again, when we think about sort of how technology is used by children today, it’s individuals with individual devices doing their own individual thing. When we think about even ten, 20 years ago, it was like fighting over the remote control, fighting over what show to watch. And there’s actually benefit to that when you think about the skills that come from negotiating with your sibling. You know, “I don’t want to watch that show or that’s not appropriate for this age group.” So a lot of that’s still here, and it’s still important, and I would argue is actually still part of a really healthy child– childhood experience. On ADHD, I would – or executive function challenges and neurodiversity – I would love to point people to Michael McLeod’s work of Grow Now ADHD. I did a webinar with him. It’s on my website. He works specifically with families with children with ADHD, and he has a very specific, clear take on screens, and that it is a different scenario with children with neurodiversity. And so I would point people to that, as well because it is different and it is manageable.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: 100%. Yeah. Which is the reason why I wanted to flag it, because it’s something that I, that I really, really see. And I think one or two of you might have mentioned about, you know, screens in the, in the living room or something like that. But we have a specific question here about should children be allowed to have screens in the bedroom? I know I have my take, but I would love to hear somebody pick up on what they’re going to say. And I know you’re going to tell me about different ages. I can feel it. I can feel it.

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: Yeah. Yeah, I am. As a developmental psychologist. Depends on the day. Depends on the device. Depends on the age. Depends on what you’re doing.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Are you sure you’re not all lawyers like me? Because really, it’s just– all I’ve been hearing is, “It depends.”

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: It’s the worst. I would– and it’s so hard because, like, it used to be easy. It’s like, “Oh, yeah, no TVs in the bedroom.” Like, that was like, “Okay, we’re not gonna have TV in the bedroom.” But now, like, everything is portable, right? And so my kids have devices in the bedroom at certain times, you know, to text their friend or to do homework, right, on their Chromebook, or whatever. Our rule is no devices in the bedroom for bedtime and overnight. That one – and it’s a challenge. Like my older kids, like, we have to fight that constantly. Like, “bring your device down.” and so on. But yeah, I feel like I was, like, a stalwart, “No screens in the bedroom.” It’s just different now. And so now it just kind of depends for me.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: It is so reassuring and refreshing to know that I am not the only one – not the only expert in this space who also has to deal with these challenges, because I have a 15 year old and an 18 year old. And, yeah, getting those devices out of the bedrooms at night or nighttime is something. Yeah, and especially when they’re much, much taller than you are – 6’9” and 6’3”. What was that Adam? You’re going to give me–

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: Let me just add. I was just going to add that this is an evolving thing, like other parenting landscapes. This is a little bit more confusing, because most of us didn’t – or at least older parents like myself – didn’t grow up with a phone. This is all new. Again, I’m not going to talk about digital immigrants at this point. But, it’s part of where we’re at right now. So, as you have a child who’s younger, yeah, I would– you might have some rules around certain technologies that are just not allowed in the bedroom at all. And then as they get older, some of that’s going to shift. And the one line that I’m just going to repeat, because I think it’s huge for sleep deprivation concerns that I see every day, is at bedtime. And I just wanted to highlight that from what Sarah said. And everyone’s nodding.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yes, for sure.

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: It doesn’t matter that it’s a battle. It’s really basic. And if the child, teenager, 15-, 16-, 17-year-old – 18 different story – but in those later teenage years, if they’re going to battle you on that, I think there’s a different conversation we need to have. Because then they’re looking to stay up into– deep into the night, like some of their friends are. And then there’s going to be consequence the next day in terms of their mood, attention, and ability to function at their job, which is school.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: I love it.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: But it has to be parents devices out of the bedroom, too. This is the other piece. I think the modeling of that is so important, and it is so much harder to tell your teenager, “Well, you have to put your phone in this spot then. I don’t.” And I always hear, “It’s an alarm clock.” Alarm clocks still work. They’re cheap. They’re not connected to the internet. Put your phone even on the other side of the room. Baby step it if you have to. But you’re going to get a lot further in your conversations about screen time with your child if you’re modeling that behavior as well.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Completely agree. And I just think that we should probably stay in this little bucket, too, about, you know, getting children off their devices or, you know, just having that intentional approach that we– that we’re all talking about. What are some strategies just to get, you know – and I’m going to say younger children – to get them to transition off their devices to an activity? What have you got? What’s your best tip?

[Dr. Sarah Coyne]: I would love to answer this because we’ve actually studied transitions around media for younger children. So what most– what most parents do is like, “Okay, it’s time to be done.” Right? “Turn your screen off now. Stop.” Right? And that often results in, like, a tantrum or like a, “Hey, I just need five more minutes. I just need to finish this. I need to finish my level. I need to do this.” Right? And so, just like with any sort of transition with a young child, like we’re going to go to the park, we’re going to go get your shoes on. You know, all these things you want to prearm them, okay? So, like, what works effectively is to give them a, “Hey, we’re going to finish in about ten minutes. I’d love for you to finish up your game. How long do you have in your episode? Like let’s finish that. Let’s have a completion. Let’s have a goal here. And then we’re going to transition to this activity.” Right? And so, and then you give them a reminder at five minutes. Sometimes, we set timers, right? “Hey, you can see it going down.” “Okay, now I know.” And then they’re way more likely to transition effectively. But if you just say, “Turn off your phone, turn off your TV.” They’re like, “Ah!” So, you’re going to get like a big, big push back there.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Agree. And I think that’s interesting too, because you talked about the younger children. So, what do you– what does– Anyone here on the panel, what do you think are– we can do with teens? And with teens, I’m just talking about more – not the transitions – but more of the safety steps. You know, how can we really get our teens to, to think about, you know, sharing inappropriate content, not sharing it, but not sharing it? How can we– how can we get them to think about online safety and just responsible tech use in general? Catherine.

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: Yeah, I’m happy to take that one. Look, again, it comes back to that conversation when you’re talking about older children and again, having those conversations early. And as I said earlier, not just doing the risk talk. So, you know, like when there was concern about sexting. So, girls sending, you know, semi-nude photos to other people, there was a real kind of, a little bit of a panic about that. And we’re like, you know, just, you know, a lot of messaging around the time was, “Just don’t do it.” You know, but that kind of messaging doesn’t work. Saying, “Don’t do this, don’t do that.” You know, “Don’t look at porn.” It’s not– it’s not a helpful conversation to have. So again, I think about having that dialogue, but also asking your child about their online experiences. Have they encountered anything or do they ever encounter anything that’s upsetting? What was it? How did it make them feel? Acknowledging, also, that a lot of young people already have strategies for addressing some of these online risks. For example, I’ve done some research which is showing that even some quite young people can recognize where there’s a risk and can at least, you know, in theory, state what they would do to mitigate that risk. What they actually do in practice is usually a different story. So, I think trying to, again, trying to avoid that kind of deficit model of assuming that young people don’t know anything, that they lack judgment, that they’re going to do something stupid is probably not the best conversation to have. But again, more of a dialogue, not a lecture. Helping your child, perhaps, to think through some of the risks and how they might address those. And then if they do encounter anything online, which is concerning for them, you want to make sure that they will come to you for help.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Agreed. 100%. I’m just going to switch us just to one other topic. I– if we have enough time, I will try to get back to the bans question. But, there’s something that has been on my mind, and I think because we are all in different continents, actually. I just think, you know, how do we talk to our teens and children about some of the things that they are seeing and hearing and reading online that’s misinformation, disinformation? That’s creating these different bubbles. That is just, I would say, impacting their mental health as far as making them question who they are, what they believe, what they think is cool, what’s not cool? What is the truth? What’s the not truth? So, does anyone have any ideas about that? Just because we are really in a different world right now, and how can we – and I’m not just talking about Andrew Tate and a lot of the misogyny and things that we’ve seen online, cancel culture, etc. – just all of these things that are in their feeds. How do we empower them with that critical thinking and that heart and then the values to be human?

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: I’ll start.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Oh, go for it. Oh, everybody, everybody liked that question.Yay! I love it. 

[Dr. Adam Pletter]: I’ll be really brief and just state the obvious to lean in with empathy. Baked into your question was the reality of what we all – depending on how much you’re paying attention – are processing and taking in terms of the volume that I’ve talked about. And I would encourage our kids and us to be mindful and intentional, you know, with purpose around the notifications. If every time you pick up your phone, there’s a list of notifications of horrific and mind-boggling headlines from real– in real time, that is going to disrupt your ability to prioritize what’s in front of you that is probably actually more important, unless you’re – there’s a level of danger. So, I would lean in with empathy, and I would encourage being mindful around notifications, being on or off, depending on the situation.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Great. Thank you. Emily, I saw you jump, too.

[Dr. Emily Cherkin]: Yes. I would just like to, again, say that there is a complicating factor here with the school issue technology. That part of the problem is that we are handing out devices to children in the name of education, but not teaching the skills part that needs to come before the screens part. So, things like typing, but also citations, understanding mis- and disinformation, media literacy in the modern context. And what I would really like to see is, again, the purposeful use of technology and that to remind people that edtech is not the same as tech-ed. That we can teach children about technology without relying on technology to teach it. And so I do think, I personally am very concerned about the threat that this poses to civic, you know, civil institutions, democracy, critical thinking, when we provide too much, too soon, too young, without the scaffolding and support. And, in my view, that is going to come through a well-informed educator and parents who have, you know, an understanding of what they’re up against. But I don’t see a lot of that happening. That is part of what my concern is.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Which is why I posed the question. And over to you, Catherine. Tell us what you–

[Dr. Catherine Page Jeffery]: So, Emily’s touched on this already. But I think, you know, critical media literacy is so important. And I agree with Emily that, you know, there has been this kind of, you know, there’s been this sort of tech utopianism around, you know, device use in schools. You know, it’s the way of the future. And we need to embrace them. And, you know, that’s a whole different conversation. But yes, there needs to be digital media literacy, and we really need to cultivate the skills in young people in school to think laterally when you, how do they verify information online. And this is not something that we can necessarily rely on parents to do either because adults – I mean, I’m sure you’ve all got got a friend on Facebook or someone who shares some kind of clearly, you know, incorrect or kind of conspiracy theory or whatever – you know, adults also fall into this trap as well. But yes, you’re right, you know, misinformation, disinformation. But also some of those online influencers who do have problematic views – whether that they’re racist or sexist or misogynistic – that’s not just one talk that is cultivating these really, really critical skills, you know, early on in young people. And, I really do think that this is critically important.

[Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov]: Yeah. And I’m so happy that you emphasized this ongoing discussion. Because, that’s something that I would always say in my talks is that it’s not a one off. You’re not just going to sit there and talk to them about, you know, sexting. And then it’s one time and it’s, “Oh, I did it.” You know, it’s instead of sitting there for– keeping your kid in front of you for 100 minutes with a lecture, I would say, “Speak one minute, 100 times and just keep going. Keep going.” Just to keep reminding them. But, we are all out of time. Did you guys notice how fast that went? It was just like, wow. I know that Kris is going to be coming on for a second, but I just wanted to personally thank the four of you because, again, I’ve been in this space for a while, and it is so interesting to have these different takes, to really hear the psychology point of view for me. Adam, it’s always just invaluable to have somebody who’s actually talking to kids, tell us what the kids say and write about what the kids are doing. Sarah, same thing. You know, it’s just to be out there and to be in the midst of it. And Catherine, doing the research. And you, Emily, having been an educator, I mean, you were right there with those kids. So, you know, and that’s a different lens for us as well. I mean, I just think it’s wonderful. And so I would just suggest to everyone to get on the Children’s and Screens Institute to rewatch this and also to connect with all of these people, because the resources, as we say in California, “They were off the hook.” So, Kris, it’s over to you.

[Kris Perry]: Thank you, Elizabeth, and the entire panel for this thoughtful discussion on how parents and caregivers can effectively guide their children’s media use in a way that reduces conflict, fosters independence, and helps guard against the development of problematic or addictive media use. If you found today’s webinar insightful, help us keep the conversation going. Your donation ensures we can continue bringing you expert advice through Ask the Experts webinars. It’s easy to give. Just scan the QR code on your screen, click the link in the chat or visit our website at childrenandscreens.org. Together we can make a difference.